Small throat killing me

[sam1750]

Hello everyone, I know that similar issues have been touched on other threads but this is to ask for opinions and recommendations from people with experience in the subject, played Trombon and then sax at school, then my uncle who was director of the band taught me to play trumpet in a Bach 37 with Bach 1.5C 22 throat and 24 backbore, sometimes I played his Monette B4S and it felt good, unfortunately our mouthpieces were stolen in a parking, I've been testing some mouthpieces among them a Yamaha 14B4, warnuton 4MC NY backbore and Bach 1C corp., but I feel that the feeling of free blowing is not the same, I have even felt tension in the neck, chest and shoulders due to this tight feeling. I have the following questions:

What mouthpieces, models and brands have you used if you are a regular player of Trombon and trumpet?

Is it possible to adapt to the “standard equipment and configuration? If this is so, what is the way to approach exercises to achieve it?

It is possible that this is generating that tension in my chest, neck and shoulders?

[bach_again]

You are simply accustomed to more free blowing gear, assuming that your technique is good. (which is to say the form of how you play, your efficiency etc... not finger dexterity)

If the above is true - replace what you already had, and be happy that things are normal again. The grass isn't greener, necessarily.

It doesn't matter what I play. I'm not you.

Yes it is possible to adapt to tighter gear. It takes consistent practice, and diligence not to over blow the gear - you must perfect playing at pp with a resonant full sound, in all registers as a first step.

Remember trumpet is NOT about air flow. It is about RESONANCE. You need very little air flow to play well. This is the first hurdle people who over blow the horn come against when going to tighter gear.

Playing on tighter gear than you are used could absolutely cause tension issues.

Good luck!
Mike
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[Ed Kennedy]

IF you are in the LA area, you live in the land of Bob Reeves and Stomvi. CAll and Visit. The Reeves 43 series is about like a 1.5C ID and he also make his Classic series including a 1 1/2C. If you go to the shop, they can home in on a throat/backbore combo that works for you. They could also open up a Bach for you.

http://www.bobreeves.com/products/classical/index.htm

Also check out Curry, Stork (Phyllis can fix you up on a phone conference)

[JVL]

hello
i think that if you need a 22 throat not to have tensions in neck & shoulders, either you're overblowing, or your horn has a problem or is not clean.

i play a 28 throat for lead, and 26 for classical. 18 for flug & cornet.
I was not confortable for the classical mpc with a 27, and with the regular throats for flug & cornet mpcs, but never led me to tensions...
best

[Andy Cooper]

Spend some time on the MarketPlace - you should find several Mpcs with large throats and backbores under $60 avoiding the cost of customization.

If that is not the problem - you can always sell them again.

[nieuwguyski]

I've been doubling on trumpet and trombone for over 35 years. Within that span of time my focus has changed: I was originally a trombone player who doubled on trumpet and now I'm a trumpet player who doubles on trombone.

When I was primarily a trombone player I played large trumpet mouthpieces (I progressed from a Schilke 24 to a Bach 1 to a Bach 1C to a Bach 2.5C), but none of them had non-stock throats or backbores. At the time I was playing a Bach 6.75C trombone mouthpiece.

As a trumpet player I've settled on a Reeves 43W rim (and the underparts have stock Reeves throats and fairly typical backbores), which isn't all that much smaller (in terms of inner diameter) than the Bach 2.5C. But my trombone mouthpieces have gotten smaller -- I use a Bach 8.5BW for most stuff and a Jet-Tone Buddy Morrow Lead when I want to punch holes in walls.

Honestly, if you think there's something magical about the Bach 1.5C/22/24 and/or the Monette B4S, it would be cheaper to just buy one or both than to embark on a mouthpiece safari -- as long as you don't start questioning whether they're "as good" as the ones that were stolen.

One more thing. Do you still have the Bach 37 those mouthpieces felt good in? If you're adding a different trumpet into the equation, all bets are off.
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[RL]

Drill a bigger hole (throat), have practiced it first on a cheap Arnolds and Sons
mouthpiece (starting with a 4mm drill and so on....4.2/4.5 etc).

[Matt Graves]

My recommendation is to try the Marcinkeiwicz Claude Gordon Personal and/or Claude Gordon 3 mouthpieces. The Claude Gordon 3 has a cup roughly equivalent to a Bach C. Both have very open backbores.
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[Tpt_Guy]

It is possible to adapt, but it is also possible that the cup-throat-backbore combinations are forcing you to squeeze the pitches around, which can cause excess tension.

Cup diameter, cup depth, cup volume, throat shape, throat length, throat diameter, backbore shape, and backbore volume can all affect the pitch tendencies of an instrument (which I consider to be the trumpet plus the mouthpiece together).

An interesting read for you to check out would be the “Conn Bluebook”, titled officially, The Proper Selection of Cup Mouthpieces.

https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/images/Conns_Blue_Booklet.pdf

But after reading through this thread, I feel like I have to state the obvious: If you liked the Bach 1-1/2C 22/24, then buy another. You can order one from Dillon Music for $75.

https://www.dillonmusic.com/bach-bach-symphonic-trumpet-mouthpiece.html?id=20036720&quantity=1

Seems like the easiest fix.
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[yourbrass]

[quote="sam1750
"... then my uncle who was director of the band taught me to play trumpet in a Bach 37 with Bach 1.5C 22 throat and 24 backbore, sometimes I played his Monette B4S and it felt good, unfortunately our mouthpieces were stolen in a parking, I've been testing some mouthpieces among them a Yamaha 14B4, warnuton 4MC NY backbore and Bach 1C corp., but I feel that the feeling of free blowing is not the same, I have even felt tension in the neck, chest and shoulders due to this tight feeling.

Is it possible to adapt to the “standard equipment and configuration? If this is so, what is the way to approach exercises to achieve it?
[/quote]

Yes, it's possible to adapt but prepare to work at it; relaxing tension is the way to go, IMHO.

I've been conducting a experiment for the last couple of years w/Pickett 3 trumpet mouthpieces, using only 27 and 25 throats, Why those two sizes? Dunno, that's just what I set out to do.

So long story short, I'm playing a 3D/27 w/my rim cut by the ever-competent Mr. Meeuswen, and was having a lot of trouble w/it. Realizing it's usually the loose nut behind the wheel that's at fault, I kept working at it daily. Low and behold I relaxed my chops in a new way in the low register and the sound opened up. Remembering that feeling and position, I've been practicing Clarke #5, among other things, and it works!

The other thing I've diagnosed in my own playing is learning to avoid dropping the jaw too much in the low register.

Good Luck!
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[sam1750]

Thank you everyone for the help, I started practicing wishpertones (an exercise I saw on YouTube with Charlie Portter) with an old 1.5 corp and the tension is almost completely gone, it is difficult not to feel any resistance in my Bach trombone and then pass to play trumpet at the same concert. before the quarantine crown I played a B6S1 Prana from a friend and it felt good, which makes me think that the throat is extremely large compared to a normal mouthpiece, which brings me to another question they ask when they play trumpets with a venturi or restricted leadpipe? (Yamaha Shew or Miyashiro for example) the approach is similar or is there a way to “modify these horns without replacing the pipe?

[jdleggett]

Easy enough to drill out a throat. Backbore is another matter. I would agree that simplest is to replace what you had that you liked. I play a large throat and backbore, and I like the feel and sound, but for me the range and endurance suffers a bit, but I usually am playing 2nd, and not principal, so isn't that big og an issue. I played tuba early on and I did feel it helped my trumpet playing.

[musicman1951]

Yes, Prana's have a huge throat. I have a B4S and it's a 17. It's a beautiful sound and the intonation is great, but 17 is too big for me.

I just got a Curry 1.5M and it was too small for me (maybe 27). I sent it to Osmun Music and they drilled it to #24. Big improvement in the blow and the sound for me. I have a second one and I think I will have them take it to a #22 for my C trumpet.

Get what works for you.

[RussellDDixon]

Mike Bogart formerly of Tower of Power and Maynard Ferguson's Big Bop Nouveau played Lead on a Marcinkiewicz trumpet mouthpiece with a #28 drill and would double on bone (with TOP). The late Mic Gillette did the same thing doubling on a Marcinkiewicz trumpet mouthpiece with bone.

The Claude Gordon Personal pieces come with a #22 dril and #20 drill.
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