The new BAC Benge bell stamp/logo looks really cool.
I was just texted a couple pics from NAMM. Wow, the Martin bell is an amazing match to the historic Martin patterns (even if not cut as deep and thus being less disruptive to the bell's characteristics - which Martin often messed with by overdoing it on the art). The Benge bell is clearly a hand-done mock-up (I have been assured production will be refined and standardized) but they are perfectly matching the historic Benge bell crest - down to the font!
Please tell me they sound as good as they look! _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 2481 Location: The Big Valley
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:17 am Post subject:
Just back from NAMM and spent a great amount of time with this horn in the presence of Charles Hargett and others at BAC. I've owned three Committees over the years, all medium bores, but have played a large selection of large bores. This is essentially a dual large bore horn, chokes at the top of the leadpipe at 462, I believe, and .468 the rest of the way... someone should confirm that; in the Fog of Horns, I may have lost details. None of the nickel highlights that I feel make the old Martins too bright. Yellow brass all the way.
Beautiful in every respect. Great scale, easy to blow-- and I'm not a fan of larger bores. I got upstairs with great ease, and the sound was something to behold. It certainly rivals the best of the Committees I've played. And yes, the engraving is spectacular and nearly identical to the iconic work on the "40s and '50s Deluxe models.
Joined: 29 Dec 2005 Posts: 526 Location: Denver, CO
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:56 pm Post subject:
We must have passed each other multiple times over the last few days Ed - If you're coming Saturday stop by the Denis Wick booth and say hi!
I had a great experience with both the Benge and Committee made by BAC. Beautiful sound on both, comfortable to play, and excellent craftsmanship. That's the order of what I find important in a horn and these had them.
Spent the last two days at NAMM. There were several standout horns. Among them were the BAC Martin Committee and the BAC Benges. I currently own a vintage Martin Committee #3 and after playing the BAC Martin Committee, which was a .468 large bore, I would have to say that this is the closest of any of the Martin copies in sound to the original Committee. Playability was also quite similar.
As far as the Benges were concerned, one was patterned after the Chicago Benge, and even though it was a .464 bore, (the 3X+ I believe came about during the Burbank period), it was a knockout. It played great and sounded great. the other Benge in the booth was patterned after the Burbank Benges and it, too, was a .464. Also a great horn but personally, I preferred the Chicago version.
Keep an eye on these horns. BAC is really on to something.
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8964 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:21 pm Post subject:
Adagio, you wrote that the BAC Committee sounded very close to the original Martin Committees but how was the playability and intonation? Improved or no difference?
And I'm just a little confused. Is this Committee the same as the one made by the new Martin? https://www.martinbrasswind.com/ or is the BAC different and is it also called Committee or something else?
Thanks. K-- _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Although nothing regarding the relationship is posted to either website for some reason, the bell of the Committee displayed by BAC at NAMM was engraved "The Martin Brasswind Committee" - so the secret is out. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
Adagio, you wrote that the BAC Committee sounded very close to the original Martin Committees but how was the playability and intonation? Improved or no difference?
And I'm just a little confused. Is this Committee the same as the one made by the new Martin? https://www.martinbrasswind.com/ or is the BAC different and is it also called Committee or something else?
Thanks. K--
As far as the blow, it is different from the original, not any better, not any worse. After a Dr. Valve precision valve alignment, the intonation on my original Committee is really good. The BAC Committee is at least as good.
The committee that B.A.C. showed at NAMM was made for the new Martin Brasswinds company. I was told that Martin requested a first valve throw ring, which is the biggest difference visually from the original Martins. If B.A.C. makes a version to sell as their own model, as Kanstul did when they made committees for Martin, they might exclude the first valve throw.
As far as the Benges were concerned, one was patterned after the Chicago Benge, and even though it was a .464 bore, (the 3X+ I believe came about during the Burbank period), it was a knockout. It played great and sounded great. the other Benge in the booth was patterned after the Burbank Benges and it, too, was a .464. Also a great horn but personally, I preferred the Chicago version.
Thanks for the update, very exciting! What were the specific differences
in the Chicago and Burbank versions? Style, weight, or design maybe?
Thanks so much...
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:32 pm Post subject:
adagiotrumpet wrote:
kehaulani wrote:
Adagio, you wrote that the BAC Committee sounded very close to the original Martin Committees but how was the playability and intonation? Improved or no difference?
And I'm just a little confused. Is this Committee the same as the one made by the new Martin? https://www.martinbrasswind.com/ or is the BAC different and is it also called Committee or something else?
Thanks. K--
As far as the blow, it is different from the original, not any better, not any worse. After a Dr. Valve precision valve alignment, the intonation on my original Committee is really good. The BAC Committee is at least as good.
Thank you for this update.
Do you know if there is a wait time when you order? _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs
Joined: 29 Dec 2005 Posts: 526 Location: Denver, CO
Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:03 pm Post subject:
[/quote]Thanks for the update, very exciting! What were the specific differences
in the Chicago and Burbank versions? Style, weight, or design maybe?
Thanks so much...[/quote]
The only difference between the two BAC Benge was a different lead pipe, otherwise they were the exact same. I forgot what they said and, of course, didn't write it down.
Joined: 13 May 2015 Posts: 295 Location: Mississippi
Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:18 pm Post subject:
adagiotrumpet wrote:
kehaulani wrote:
Adagio, you wrote that the BAC Committee sounded very close to the original Martin Committees but how was the playability and intonation? Improved or no difference?
And I'm just a little confused. Is this Committee the same as the one made by the new Martin? https://www.martinbrasswind.com/ or is the BAC different and is it also called Committee or something else?
Thanks. K--
As far as the blow, it is different from the original, not any better, not any worse. After a Dr. Valve precision valve alignment, the intonation on my original Committee is really good. The BAC Committee is at least as good.
You mentioned the blow was different. Is the blow of the BAC more open, or less open, than the original Martins?
Do you know if there is a wait time when you order?
You can order through the "Buy Now" links at www.martinbrasswind.com . I don't know if Mr. Martin is carrying any inventory, but there was a rumor out of Kanstul that he did not, so I imagine that between that and the newness of the horn, you will be waiting while it is built.
Let's also keep in mind that they only started designing the horn in August as they were installing the machinery that arrived in June into a space reconstructed in July! Were it not for the incredible experience and knowledge of the people (who's names you haven't heard) behind these BAC horns, there is no way this would have been possible in January.
I don't know if BAC Music Center will become a dealer for Martin Brasswind, but it would not surprise me. They are a dealer for the rest of the BAC Musical Instruments line-up, and the logistics would certainly be easy. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
The thing I find most remarkable is the incredible marketing draw of the Martin name. This horn could stand on its own easily, but the affiliation of a Martin family member is going to do wonders for drawing attention to it.
This is surprising because the Martin family has been in the instrument business sporadically for 148 years, but only 54 of those years operating as "makers". Even counting the 35 years that members of the first and second generation worked for Detroit, Conn & Buescher as craftsmen, it is still only 60% of the 148 year window. The Martins were essentially out of the loop from 1922 to 2017 (while the Imperials, Committees, Deluxe and Magna were designed and produced) but the Martin name eclipses BAC in an instant as far as recognition and subliminal associations.
Makes you wonder what other great horns there are out there that we don't know about because the name didn't capture anyone's attention. . . .
This lesson was not lost on BAC, as evidenced by the clever acquisition of the Benge trademark. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
The only difference between the two BAC Benge was a different lead pipe, otherwise they were the exact same. I forgot what they said and, of course, didn't write it down.
Aha! That would make sense, as the early Chicagos were copies of Bessons and would likely have that pipe. I've read the Burbanks began offering the different bells but not sure about leadpipes.
The LA 4x and 5x had the same bell but different pipes, the 4x having the Besson pipe.
Thanks for the info!
The only difference between the two BAC Benge was a different lead pipe, otherwise they were the exact same. I forgot what they said and, of course, didn't write it down.
Aha! That would make sense, as the early Chicagos were copies of Bessons and would likely have that pipe. I've read the Burbanks began offering the different bells but not sure about leadpipes.
The LA 4x and 5x had the same bell but different pipes, the 4x having the Besson pipe.
Thanks for the info!
It is not quite that simple. BAC has a mind-blowing number of leadpipes available to them, mostly Byron Autrey's work but including Besson clones from the Olds Custom project, that they obtained from Kanstul and from the Autrey estate. Benge saw his mission as continuing and building on the work of Besson, and Byron was committed to continuing Benge's work. So they are all Besson and Benge pipes to an extent, and yet more advanced - it's a continuum. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
Joined: 29 Dec 2005 Posts: 526 Location: Denver, CO
Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:11 am Post subject:
BAC has a wide range of lead pipe options, that's true. The only difference between the two horns at NAMM, though, were a different lead pipe. I just forgot which lead pipes they were.
But, for those interested: Here's a short video overview of my trip to NAMM this year and there's about a minute clip of Rashawn Ross trying out the new BAC made Martin Committee.
I was about to make a video of myself playing it and do a quick review when Rashawn walked over and said he wanted to try it. I figured more people would be interested in his thoughts over mine. (He tried the Benge's too, but preferred the Committee)
I think that we should all celebrate the fact that new Martin Committees and new Benge 3x+ trumpets are now available, and that they are authentic and extremely well crafted by B.A.C. The Benge prototypes that were on display had the shorter throw valves, similar to the Kanstul 1001, which means that the fifth partial is now in tune. Other than that, this is the 3x that we know and love.
I’m hoping that in the future B.A.C. will be able to offer the full line of Benge trumpets, including the 3x, 4x, 5x and 6x models. I believe that their version of the Olds Recording will be available as well. Truly exciting things are happening at B.A.C.
Last edited by Liberty Lips on Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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