View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Brent Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 1097 Location: St. Paul, MN
|
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:46 am Post subject: B.A.C. company and Martin Committees |
|
|
Looks like the B.A.C. company will be taking over the production of the Martin Committees. My guess is they're using the toolings that Kanstul had before they closed shop.
From what I've read, B.A.C. makes some incredible horns. They're also making Benge model horns as well.
Brent S _________________ Brent |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Liberty Lips Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 979
|
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:59 am Post subject: Re: B.A.C. company and Martin Committees |
|
|
Brent wrote: | They're also making Benge model horns as well.
|
Also from the Kanstul tooling, presumably, although I know that they also had some benge bell mandrels before the Kanstul purchase.
Will they be showing these Committees and Benges at NAMM this year? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2028 Location: USA
|
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: | Will they be showing these Committees and Benges at NAMM this year? |
Yes. According to their Facebook page they will be showing the Martin Committee and the prototype Benges at NAMM. They actually had two of the prototype Benges at JEN last week; not sure about the Committee. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9005 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Boy, if anyone here can play them and report back to us, that would be great! _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
|
Back to top |
|
|
stephan Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 254 Location: France
|
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The site https://www.martinbrasswind.com/ is updated and the B.A.C horn looks very different from the Kanstul. _________________ 2018 Bach 19043 (Kanstul CG3)
2006 Getzen Capri cornet (Kanstul CG3)
1960's Couesnon flugelhorn (Marcinkiewicz BSC) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Liberty Lips Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 979
|
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The valve cluster looks different (less like the original) and there is a first valve thumb throw (also less like the original), but otherwise it looks a lot like the Kanstul. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Drklobz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Dec 2005 Posts: 526 Location: Denver, CO
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
theslawdawg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2008 Posts: 843 Location: Waikiki, Hawaii
|
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
And the case looks cool.... _________________ My go-to Trumpet and Flugel: Thane.
Greg Black MPs |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Liberty Lips Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 979
|
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Did B.A.C. acquire the Benge name from Conn-Selmer? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440
|
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A lot is going on at BAC, and the new line of instruments facilitated by the acquisition of what was left at Kanstul is quite exciting. Unfortunately, I am a long way from KC and have not had a chance to try them, but have heard quite a bit of detail regarding them – some of which I will share.
Whatever else one might say about Mike Corrigan, there is no denying he is a man of incredible passion. He is not alone in this at BAC and while perhaps focusing their energy differently, all of those involved in these new models have just as much passion as he does for the art and their craft. That is a really good starting point for any new instrument.
The new Committee is exactly that, new. Like all of the BAC projects, this is their horn, built with the tooling and methods available (not everything was still there, so continuing Kanstul was never an option for them). The amount of R&D that has gone into this new Committee rivals any new product development process and is in no way a copy of a particular horn from any of the 3 generations of Committee or of the short-lived Kanstul 1603s. However, the folks at BAC went to great lengths to gather precise details, and I mean a lot of details, from every form of Committee ranging from the few Kanstul’s built, all the way back to my 1937 example of one of the very first Committees ever built. They identified the elements in common, those that diverged, and the attributes each imbued the whole with. From that knowledge, and with the incorporation of some of the most leading edge tech in the business, they developed a horn that intended to make manifest the concept “Martin Committee”. The unmistakable sound, the broad projection, and the facilitation of precision that typifies all Committees is the goal in what I would define as the 4th generation.
Early feedback has been good. I look forward to hearing the opinions of more skilled sets of ears in the near future.
The Benge project is leveraging not just tooling, but a non-physical asset that came to BAC from Kanstul: the design knowledge of some key shapers of the instrument in the twentieth century. The classic bright full French trumpet sound that was defined by the first viable orchestral valved trumpet, made by Besson, developed on its own path starting with the mission of Benge himself to not only continue it in the face of new and different sounding orchestral trumpets during the depression, but to pursue its perfection (when even the other French firms abandoned the French concept). His friend, colleague and teacher Renold Schilke contributed to that mission, as did Byron Autrey and Irving Bush. Both Benge and Autrey pursued that goal through the end of their lives, which in Byron’s case was only recently, and only after continuing the mission in the background with Kanstul and others for decades. The Benge project is ongoing, but the goal expressed to me by those involved is nothing less than to continue Benge and Autrey’s mission and produce the finest and most pure example yet of that clear French/Besson/Benge sound we all know when we hear it, refining ever further the degree to which the equipment aids the player in producing it easily, accurately, and consistently.
It’s a frustration and a shame that Kanstul unloaded the Benge annealing ovens on EBay before BAC had a chance to acquire them, but I am sure they will develop a viable replacement.
To essentially build a new larger shop and simultaneously launch so many products (these plus Paseo Z72 and Plaza) with such detailed design involvement in so few months has been a herculean undertaking. The proof is in the playing however, so now we have to listen with open minds to those who, hopefully with equally unbiased curiosity, try out these new horns and report back to tell us how well BAC is doing with their as yet still under construction facilities, still learning staff, and still evolving processes.
As for the Benge name, there is an interesting story there that I will leave to those involved to tell when they, and it, are ready. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
blbaumgarn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2017 Posts: 705
|
Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:55 pm Post subject: B.A.C. company and Martin committees |
|
|
Is BAC the one making the Committee horn for Martin Brasswind Company right now? Just curious. _________________ "There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality,
there is one that lives to lay waste to woodwinds and strings, leaving them lie blue and lifeless along a swath of destruction that is a
trumpeter's fury-then there is the dark side!" Irving Bush |
|
Back to top |
|
|
pinstriper Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2013 Posts: 340 Location: Portlandia, OR
|
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:42 am Post subject: Re: B.A.C. company and Martin committees |
|
|
blbaumgarn wrote: | Is BAC the one making the Committee horn for Martin Brasswind Company right now? Just curious. |
According to the page I saw, yes. _________________ ~'77 DEG Dynasty II Soprano Bugle in G
'13 Chinese POS "Hawk" branded Flugel
'59 Olds Ambassador Cornet
'51 Olds Super
'69 Olds Studio
'40 Olds Special Cornet, Military Issued |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Liberty Lips Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 979
|
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
OldSchoolEuph wrote: |
As for the Benge name, there is an interesting story there that I will leave to those involved to tell when they, and it, are ready. |
In other words, yes, they acquired the Benge name from Conn-Selmer. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Yamahaguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2004 Posts: 3992
|
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Drklobz wrote: | I'll be at NAMM and will gladly give my thoughts on the horn. I'm looking forward to trying it and the new BAC Benge while there. | Yes, please do! Would love to read your thoughts/reviews on what they have designed!
Thanks,
Dennis |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TrptSTP Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2008 Posts: 378 Location: Toledo, OH
|
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Liberty Lips wrote: |
The valve cluster looks different (less like the original) and there is a first valve thumb throw (also less like the original), but otherwise it looks a lot like the Kanstul. |
I'm curious who is making that valve cluster. To my eyes it doesn't look like Carolbrass, Meinlschmidt, Getzen, Kanstul, or Adams. I know that they have made in-house valve clusters before, but I wonder if this is one. I know what I think it is, but I wonder what the actual answer is. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kevin_soda Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 558 Location: Seattle
|
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
TrptSTP wrote: | Liberty Lips wrote: |
The valve cluster looks different (less like the original) and there is a first valve thumb throw (also less like the original), but otherwise it looks a lot like the Kanstul. |
I'm curious who is making that valve cluster. To my eyes it doesn't look like Carolbrass, Meinlschmidt, Getzen, Kanstul, or Adams. I know that they have made in-house valve clusters before, but I wonder if this is one. I know what I think it is, but I wonder what the actual answer is. |
Given the tooling they have on hand and the breadth of horns they expect to offer, it would be most practical and profitable for them to make their own valves. Also, it would fill the domestic void left by Kanstul. Of course, I don’t know if Flip Oaks, Scodwell, Harrelson, etc. would follow to BAC. _________________ Kevin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9005 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Do I remember reading that Kanstul Committees are excellent Committee-ish horns, but they are not Committees? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bill Ortiz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2007 Posts: 904
|
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wonder how they play compared to the Schilke Handcraft-look forward to trying one. _________________ '56 Martin Committee Deluxe #2 trumpet
14B Schilke mouthpiece
Couesnon Paris flugelhorn
Bob Reeves Sleeves and PVA
Last edited by Bill Ortiz on Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9005 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
enviroman22 Regular Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2018 Posts: 66
|
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:43 pm Post subject: Great post |
|
|
Thank you for this post! A wealth of diverse information. Good job TH.
And the expertise shown through the introduction of Mike Corrigan of B.A.C., a company I never heard of is especially fascinating. _________________ 1940s Service Bugle
1949 Martin Committee Bb
1964 Olds Ambassador Bb cornet
1965 Cleveland / King Craftsmen Bb cornet
1965 Olds Ambassador Bb
1967 Olds Ambassador Bb cornet
1968 Bach Strad Bb Model 37
1969 Bach Strad C
1974 & 1981 Schilke MII Bb |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|