Retraining embochure to prevent repositioning for octave cha

[Pete236]

Hi folks.

I've got some of my musical mojo back after a few years of disinterest. And now I'm back,no want to improve.
I've been watching a lot of videos, reading and watching tutorials, and I've identified a mahooosive bad habit that I've got.

To achieve changes in octaves, to raise and lower pitch through my range (which is poor) I move my lips and mouthpiece around all over the place! I have a very noticeable difference in position between low C and middle C, and the higher I go, the lower my trumpet bell gets relative to my face.

Playing through the last movement of Carnival of Venice really highlights just how much I'm limited by this.

Is it possible to remove this bad technique after 25 years of playing? If so, how do I start?

Any advice and info will be taken on board with thanks!


I play mostly British Brass Band cornet, with a bit of Big Band 2nd trumpet.

Cheers folks,
Pete.

[Dayton]

Some movement of the lips and jaw isn't unusual, nor is it unusual to see a player pivot the angle of the horn as they ascend/descend, but "all over the place" is probably not helpful.

"Massive bad habits" are hard to fix. The best thing you can do is find a good teacher and work with him/her to figure out what the underlying problem is and how to address it.

Until you can work with a good teacher you could try some exercises that move you from one part of your range to another without a break. The interval exercises on pages 125-131 of Arban are a good example of that, as are flexibility exercises like #8-9 from Irons. Take them slowly, and slur them.

Good luck!

[adc]

Certainly not an expert. But after 50 years "off" and having started up three years ago...the last year with a very experienced teacher.

One of the things he reinforces is keeping the corner of your mouth tight and using less pressure. Playing a middle "G" very very softly and long. He wants me to do that 5 minutes every day. I do it maybe 2 minutes. I need to do better.
_________________
Too many Old Cornets to Count

[Rod Haney]

I recently had an hour lesson with Bobby Shew on Skype and he talked about pivot points, which makes a lot of sense to me. I seem to have an exact opposite problem as you mention in that I have almost no movement of horn when I play. I believe that this is limiting my ability to play high into the cup. He believes the jaw controls all this but it was only after the lesson I discovered I don’t understand the way to shift the air up yet. I can hit good notes up to dbl c but no control what so ever and can’t play a scale above hi g. So I need another lesson or 2. I noticed when Bobby plLays there is some movement up and down with the trumpet but I don’t think it’s a hand thing, just responding to the jaw movement he speaks of. I will need more explanation on this. Perhaps you could talk to him, he’s truly the most knowledgeable guy I e ever spoken to and you know he’s got the nuggets to back it up. Every question I asked ( I have many more) were answered in a way I understood and made sense based on my limited smarts. Simply going thru his warmup and why he does things is invaluable. Even if you don’t get with him I think the above mention of pivot points is right on target. Look this up I’m sure there is info if not how to accomplish, I think that may take a teacher, but what they are and what they do in regard to range. Don’t worry about changing habits, in the last 4 years I’ve changed everything about my play for the good. When you find the right or better way to do something a little concentrated effort and the improved sound will quickly replace any habit. Key to changing a bad habit for me is replacing it with a better one.
Rod

[Turkle]

What you need to do is your lip slurs, Clarke, scales, etc. while focusing on keeping your embouchure solid.

Everyone moves their chops around when we play. So you're not alone. And many players move the horn around when they play as well (I do a bit).

The goal is to have a setup that allows you to get around all over the horn at any dynamic level with a good sound and with maximum efficiency (no wasted effort).

There are no shortcuts, no magic bullets. You have to develop that embouchure the hard way, and that means putting in the time to do it. There are any number of great methods to do this. I used Schlossberg.

Here is a thread that shows the method that worked for me. https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=145903&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

If you do that routine, in order, every day, for about 6 months you'll have the bulletproof "kung fu" chops you've always dreamed of.

But there are any number of other methods that a qualified teacher could show you as well.

No shortcuts! Good luck!
_________________
Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.

[Jaw04]

I recommend taking some time to watch yourself in the mirror: observe how you set up before you play different notes throughout your entire range. Just play a quarter note starting on a low C, then set up to play middle C, high C, and above etc. if possible. Make some observations and then experiment with your "set up" of how you position your lips and mouthpiece. Think of your experiments as educated guesses about how to minimize excessive contortions of your embouchure or mouthpiece placement. After a while you might be able to play everything in the same time zone.

[Al Innella]

Read Reinhardt's Encyclopedia of the Pivot System. He describes the different angles of pivot for different mouthpiece settings and up stream and down stream players.

[john4860]

I'm a comeback player and one of the things I work on most and which has been of the most benefit to me is working on playing from low f sharp up to high c without moving my mouthpiece setting or embouchure.

I'm sure we've discussed this hundreds of times on TH but the really good players (such as Brandon Ridenour or Caleb Hudson) it appears that everything they are doing occurs inside that tiny area called the mouthpiece. They appear very relaxed and tensionless. Again something that has been talked about many times is that playing trumpet is a skill or knack more than the need for brute strength.

Rafael Mendez said "in order to play high you must learn to play low, in order to play loud you must learn to play soft".

Soft controlled slow playing is the most productive type of practice for me.
Playing very soft controlled lip slurs in the lower register, very accurate controlled tonguing in the lower and middle register yields some pretty awesome results. Practicing these fundamentals everyday pays off.

John
_________________
Staying relaxed is 90% of trumpet playing

[swthiel]

You might consider either James Thompson's The Buzzing Book or the approach used by James Stamp. The Buzzing Book focuses explicitly on playing through break points. Stamp will also bring you from pedals to the top of your register without resetting. You can probably do The Buzzing Book on your own, but I think it's best to learn Stamp from a real live teacher who knows how to do it properly. That said, there are a couple of sticky threads in the Stamp forum that describe the process. It made a huge difference in my playing, including eliminating resetting.
_________________
Steve Thiel

[Seymor B Fudd]