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Danbassin
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Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 460
Location: Idyllwild, CA
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 Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| TKSop wrote: | | OldSchoolEuph wrote: | | TKSop wrote: | | It maybe worth confirming, in this day and age, that it's actually a genuine Strad? |
Perhaps the OP will post pictures of the bell engraving, the back of the valve casings, and a side profile so we can assess. |
I wouldn't necessarily bet against it... As you say, with pics it'll become very obvious if it's a counterfeit.
When the OP says he was given a "new horn" I took it to mean a new rather than new-to-him horn - unless it's an extremely rare NY Strad I'd be stunned if it was highpitch (to the point I'm not even sure why we're talking about it!). |
I haven't seen this hypothesis thus far in this thread, so if the OP can confirm the serial number and upload a photo or two, we could get much further...
A quick Google on Mt. Vernon era Bachs should yield threads here and elsewhere about leapipe/receiver lengths from this 'experimental' period which did require a longer pull than we're used to. Part of this may have included Bach and soon Selmer's wish to market the horns even more strongly to the international market, where certain orchestras were tuning up to A=445. Here's a link - https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1262908
-DB
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Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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stevericks
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Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 114
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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That is why you have a tuning slide. Pull it out and play. If you feel it is really “too far out” then have a tech check it as others Indicated. I have seen good players with slides pushed almost all the way in to 3/4 or more of in inch out. Be aware that if you are having to pull it out like an inch or more, you will likely need to move the other slides out slightly (as others indicated).
If you will look up and post roughly when the horn was manufactured by using the serial number (lots of good searchable sources that will get you within a year or two of production), that will help us rule out the high pitch low pitch issue.
Let us know what you find, otherwise we feel like no one is listening. Best of luck.
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Steve
Olds, Kanstul, Bach |
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musicmork
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Posts: 1530
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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You have several options. You could always get a Bach mouthpiece extension.
Or, a tech could probably fix the problem for about $50 or less.
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MARK /aka "musicmork"/ aka " The Creator "
TRUMPET: Getzen , Olds
MOUTHPIECES Bach 3-C, Schilke 13a4a
CORNET: Holton Galaxy (Awesome horn)
KEYBOARDS: Kurzweil PC88MX,Yamaha S-30, Casio Privia 575R |
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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12663
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| musicmork wrote: | | You have several options. You could always get a Bach mouthpiece extension. |
And a few slide crook extensions.  |
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OldSchoolEuph
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:05 am Post subject: |
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Right now the OP has only posted twice, the other being in another thread 2.5 weeks earlier indicating playing a 90s Bach 37. That would solidly rule out any HP modified NY Bach, or mid-Mt.-Vernon build. There were a lot of issues in the mid 90s to 2007 window, but I've never heard of a horn being built an inch short in overall length. That would be a new one. Must be something else.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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Crazy Finn
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Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8333
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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One of my friends in college had a mid-90's Strad. The D, D#/Eb and E (4th line D, 4th space E) were extremely out of tune by between a quarter and a half step, but it was decent aside from those notes.
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plp
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Location: South Alabama
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| Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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A bandmate plays with his slide out about 1 3/4", and plays a Yamaha 16C4 mouthpiece. He can pick a 4th ledger G out of clean air, accented, at MP, or FF, accented, whatever is called for.
Horses for courses, we all do what we do, on whatever we have, for whatever reasons. What comes out of the bell is all that matters.
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Since all other motivesfame, money, power, even honorare thrown out the window the moment I pick up that instrument..... I play because I love doing it, even when the results are disappointing. In short, I do it to do it. Wayne Booth |
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gsmonks
New Member
Joined: 02 Oct 2021
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: New horn out of tune |
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| Shinybear wrote: | | I got a new horn from my uncle and its a very nice Bach strad. It sounds wonderful. Just the only problem is tends to ride like 30-40 cents sharp. How frowned upon is it to leave my tuning slide another inch out. |
Bach (ha-ha) in the early 1970s my trumpet teacher Ken Hopkins (VSO) and his buddy Ross Armstrong (VPO) both ordered brand-new Bach Stradivarius C trumpets from NorthWest Music in Vancouver. When the horns finally arrived, they got sent back to where they came from on the next bus. They were both out-of-tune junk. Bach made a name for itself at the time for producing junk.
Their old C Bach Strads were excellent horns. My old buddy Blaine Dunaway was loaned a Strad of similar vintage by Len Whitely's daughter, and Blaine said at the time (this was the 90s) that it was the only C he ever played that played just like a Bb. The only problem with those old horns was that the compression was gone. The valves were just plain worn out.
I heard decades later that Bach had redeemed itself- that they'd hit a rough patch in the 70s.
I think assembly-line horns are subject to the same problems associated with assembly-line workers everywhere: try to buy a product that was made on certain days of the week, unless the company in question has remarkable quality-control people. |
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blbaumgarn
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Joined: 26 Jul 2017
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:40 am Post subject: new out of tune trumpet |
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Stick with it. If you love the sound the tuning issue will sort out. You shouldn't be afraid to used very competent techs or another really good player who could watch you play. It probably played in tune when it left the factory.
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"There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality,
there is one that lives to lay waste to woodwinds and strings, leaving them lie blue and lifeless along a swath of destruction that is a
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falado
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Location: Eastern NC
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:15 am Post subject: |
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Hi, I would consider sending it to Jim Becker at Osmun Music. Tell him the problem and have him evaluate the horn. I've had him blueprint most of my horns and they've all came back players.
Of course, it could also be you. Do you have this problem with other horns or just this horn? I had a student who's tuning slide was almost out 2 inches. But, when I worked with him in lessons we could bring his slide in. It depended how he approached air down the horn. However, if this is not the case, call Jim. There may be some solder blobs or tension somewhere in the horn.
Dave
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Stomvi VR (Reeves) with VR II Bell
Bach 239 25A C, Blueprinted
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gsmonks
New Member
Joined: 02 Oct 2021
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: new out of tune trumpet |
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| blbaumgarn wrote: | | It probably played in tune when it left the factory. |
The horns that left the factory in the 70s were often out-of-tune junk and were evaluated by the top pros in the business. Bach has a history of hit-and-miss in terms of quality.
Just because it's a Bach doesn't automatically mean it's a great instrument.
Trying to shift the blame to the player isn't kosher ("are you sure it isn't you?"). Not unless you have the player and the instrument right there in front of you so that you can evaluate both. Otherwise you're just opinionating without any real information to go on. |
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OldSchoolEuph
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 2441
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: new out of tune trumpet |
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| gsmonks wrote: | | blbaumgarn wrote: | | It probably played in tune when it left the factory. |
The horns that left the factory in the 70s were often out-of-tune junk and were evaluated by the top pros in the business. Bach has a history of hit-and-miss in terms of quality. |
While the defect rate in the 90s into early 2000s was abysmal, I don't know where your perspective comes from. Early Elkhart horns are widely respected and the later 70s horns were/are for the most part solid. I know serious pros who still use the same Bachs they started with in the late 70s - along with newer Bachs of course.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12663
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: new out of tune trumpet |
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| gsmonks wrote: | | blbaumgarn wrote: | | It probably played in tune when it left the factory. |
The horns that left the factory in the 70s were often out-of-tune junk and were evaluated by the top pros in the business. Bach has a history of hit-and-miss in terms of quality.
Just because it's a Bach doesn't automatically mean it's a great instrument.
Trying to shift the blame to the player isn't kosher ("are you sure it isn't you?"). Not unless you have the player and the instrument right there in front of you so that you can evaluate both. Otherwise you're just opinionating without any real information to go on. |
Trying to dismiss a whole line of instruments isn’t kosher either. If you aren’t the pro that tried the horns, or you cannot get the pro to sign up and say on here that every horn made by Bach is trash, you are simply passing on hearsay. |
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