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ILM
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Joined: 17 Mar 2020
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Location: WINSTON-SALEM ,NC

PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:11 am    Post subject: c-trumpet Reply with quote

hello all , I am new here and hope all are doing well . I am looking for a lower line c-trumpet for the kids and any one that wants to play at my church can use . I play schilke cx5 but can not put that kind of money in one as a 2nd or for people to use . Just like helping folk's . Any suggestions on Chinese horns like Schiller or Wisemann ect. that might be decent . Any comments would be helpful . I am a come back player of 5 years and took from a great teacher to make sure i did not start back with bad habits . I am new here so excuse me if
am not doing things right




Bach Strad
L.a Benge 3x
Kanstul 700 with copper bell
Yamaha flugelhorn
e. f durand rotary trumpet ( cheap toy)
Schilke cx-5
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Danbassin
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd recommend keeping clear of any non-professional C trumpet. Essentially, you'll have a bad Bb cut down into an incredibly bad C!

Used versions by Getzen (Capris are surprisingly good, and Eternas can give Bachs a run for their money, depending on vintage and condition), and even Benge can frequently be found for a similar price-point to those too-good-to-be-true eBay horns. I know that Carol Brass makes a C pocket which I've heard good things about, but have never held let alone played.

Good luck, and welcome to TH!

-Dan
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I play:
Monette CORNETTE; MC-35 (on order!)
Bb: Bach 72 Sterling/Monette pipe/MK Slides
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Flugel: Adams F4
MPCs: Monette Prana Resonance 1-1 series.
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A used Yamaha 6445 or used German Sonare C-trumpet will certainly cost less than your Schilke and are worthwhile purchases.

(I'm not familiar with off-brand C-trumpets to know if they are OK or would be just too frustrating to even try. Sorry.)
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KevinInGeorgia
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would look for something like an ACB Bundle for a C trumpet if I was going to get an Off-brand.. Just talk to Trent and tell him what you are looking for..

https://www.austincustombrass.biz/starter-c-trumpet-bundle-includes-silver-plated-brasspire-1000s-c-acb-mouthpiece-mute-and-stand/
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getzen, Benge and Sonare were already mentioned. I'll add the Eastman 500-series C trumpet. Good horn at a reasonable price used.

I'd steer clear of the really inexpensive (new) horns unless you have a chance to play one for yourself. A horn that is difficult to play in tune is of no use to your church group....

Good luck!
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JGulyas
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dayton wrote:
I'll add the Eastman 500-series C trumpet. Good horn at a reasonable price used.

Good luck!


Another vote for Eastman.

I just got myself an Eastman ETR530 and I'm quite happy with it. For sure, it isn't the gold plated Malone Yamaha 6445HGS I had years ago, but it does a fine job so far.

Intonation is good throughout, and it blows quite easily for a ML bore C, though just a tad stuffy around high C and above.

Valves are aligned well, construction feels very solid, and fit/finish looks goo as well.

The can definitely sing if you're playing in the center of pitch! Sound-wise it's very close to my Yamaha 6335GHSII, with the obvious differences of a Bb and C.

From what I understand, the Eastman is made in the same factory as Shires, but it's assembled in China whereas Shires is assembled here in the US.

Cost was less than $950 at my local shop, new.
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ILM
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank for all the responses , am getting good info
thanks
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a Getzen Capri C on EBAY. Very underrated, ML bore. One was played by the principle of the Minnesota Orchestra many years ago and he sounded great!
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yourbrass
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed Kennedy wrote:
There's a Getzen Capri C on EBAY. Very underrated, ML bore. One was played by the principle of the Minnesota Orchestra many years ago and he sounded great!


+1
I had an old Getzen C trumpet in the shop for extensive work - it played far better in tune than most Bachs.
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kanstul 1510, 1510-A are rare, but may be affordable. Same with Kanstul-made Besson C-trumpets.

Zig was more positive about the Benge 2-C than the #3 bell C trumpet.

All of these are pretty rare, obviously. Of these, I think the 1510 would be the easiest to loan to an average players with good success.
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Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a carolbrass C pocket trumpet used (around $600) and later found a fides symphony that was well used and had a dent in the bell (<$500). After $50 in repairs it's a fun horn. For me these were the compromise between a "great" C trumpet (usually $1000+ used) or a no name. I like them both. I have a teacher now who's mostly jazz, but having two C's also means we can play together.
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B_Starry
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the goal is to make playing hymns easier in church, without the need for the player to have to sight transpose the hymnal music, wouldn't it be much cheaper to just buy the transposed parts? I know both Baptist and Methodist hymnals are published with full parts for Bb and Eb instruments, at less than $50 apiece.
If you need inexpensive instruments, then I suggest you simply pick up a used Olds Ambassador cornet (and a used mouthpiece) on eBay and provide its player a Bb hymnal … Be much cheaper than buying a decent C trumpet, IMO.
I assume the transposition is the issue, if not, please disregard my suggestion!

Just an idea.
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blbaumgarn
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:06 pm    Post subject: c-trumpet Reply with quote

I applaud your desire to help another player out. I was maybe 15-16 when I was introduced to transposition. I agree with those who mentioned Getzen Capri. Good horns. I don't remember how long it was before I felt comfortable enough to even transpose hymns in church by sight. It can be done with a little practice. If I can learn it virtually anyone can. If you can find a decent sounding c trumpet used for 4-5 hundred go for it. People need to learn to transpose though. Many years later playing in church one of our members who had a masters in music performance used to write things for choir and instruments. She was doing a descant thing for me to play one Sunday and we didn't have a chance to meet during the week to practice. Sooo, Sunday she gives me a sheet of music and I can at least look at it to play. When the vocal group started I had a funny feeling, looking at the music, and just before I was to enter, the piano player did a modulation before the last verse and I realized I had to sight read and transpose. Something I hadn't done for nearly 20 years. My life flashed before my eyes and it all worked out. I have always wanted a c-trumpet but will made due with the transposing when necessary. Good Luck in your search.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B_Starry wrote:
If the goal is to make playing hymns easier in church, without the need for the player to have to sight transpose the hymnal music, wouldn't it be much cheaper to just buy the transposed parts? I know both Baptist and Methodist hymnals are published with full parts for Bb and Eb instruments, at less than $50 apiece.
If you need inexpensive instruments, then I suggest you simply pick up a used Olds Ambassador cornet (and a used mouthpiece) on eBay and provide its player a Bb hymnal … Be much cheaper than buying a decent C trumpet, IMO.
I assume the transposition is the issue, if not, please disregard my suggestion!

Just an idea.

First, I think it is a very generous gesture the OP is proposing.

But I had a similar thought about purchasing transposed instrumental parts. The issue is that many churches now use contemporary music and are bringing in new pieces to keep the music fresh. Many of these are very rudimentary and won't have instrumental parts.

In my opinion, as both a former choir director, worship leader and instrumentalist, I really don't like the instruments just playing the melody all the time. However, many don't have a problem with that, and many actually like it.

One other thought, many find the C trumpet difficult to play. Some find it difficult to hear the pitch they need to play since they are used to the trumpet sounding a step below the written note when playing a Bb.

So initially the player might not be helped as much as expected until they get used to different pitch centers. This skill can be beneficial, just as learning to transpose is beneficial, if the player continues to play trumpet in the future.
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ILM
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you all are great , very good info and really had not thought about a hymnal in b-flat we are Methodist ( well for right now we are) who knows after May . We do a lot of contemporary but we use the b-flats for most of that , if c is needed it is 1 part and i do that . The other thing is i would like to have second for me not only for the players at church . That may help in my thoughts on spending a lil more . I am planning on retiring soon and would to play more and do more with the church . Right now I work 50, 60 hours a week so i am limited on what i can do
Thank you all so much , great suggestions
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the player finds the C-trumpet stuffy or resistant, often times getting an additional mouthpiece with a larger throat and larger backbone (but keeping the cup and rim identical to their Bb mouthpiece) relieves the stuffiness.
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Manuel de los Campos
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry wrote:
If the player finds the C-trumpet stuffy or resistant, often times getting an additional mouthpiece with a larger throat and larger backbone (but keeping the cup and rim identical to their Bb mouthpiece) relieves the stuffiness.


No, if the C-trumpet feels stuffy or resistant you approach the C-trumpet as a shortened Bb-trumpet, this is not gonna work: those who wants to play the C-trumpet should make many hours on the C-trumpet to make the C-trumpet his / her own.
C-trumpets have different vibrations with different fingerings so the sound you hear with your ears has to be translated with you mind to your embouchure in relation with your fingers . This takes many hours of practice
The C-trumpet is an entire different instrument than the Bb with her own character; a decent C-trumpet is not just a shortened Bb-trumpet!
If you just want to use it for church and so better use your Bb trumpet and learn how to transpose or rewrite the score
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manuel, I use the same mouthpiece on C as I do on Bb. I just attributed it to my playing Schilke trumpets, not Bachs. However, I play my C much more than I play my Bb.

However, I read all over this website that pros use stock Bach trumpet mouthpieces on their Bb trumpets, but Bach mouthpieces opened to 24/24 on their C-trumpets. Conn-Selmer (Bach) now sells as stock their orchestral sized mouthpieces in a 24/24 configuration.

Why would they do that if players weren't using these opened mouthpieces for their C-trumpets? (This is not to be confrontational; this is a request for information.)
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ILM
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i started this just for info and all is welcome but not to be confrontational
i do appreciate all , ty again . All info is good for the future
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Manuel de los Campos
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry wrote:
I read all over this website that pros use stock Bach trumpet mouthpieces on their Bb trumpets, but Bach mouthpieces opened to 24/24 on their C-trumpets. Conn-Selmer (Bach) now sells as stock their orchestral sized mouthpieces in a 24/24 configuration.


This information surprises me, over here in The Netherlands I never heard about this.
I use a Courtois C-trumpet and Getzen Bb-trumpets and I use the same mouthpieces for both trumpets. I am not a pro player but I did do a few years conservatory classical trumpet 30 years ago. During my study I never met trumpet players who opened up mouthpieces.
We just study our instruments rather than searching for quick fix
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