F. Besson Meha by Kanstul

BKA · New Member Joined: 04 Feb 2020 Posts: 3

Hi everyone,
I am a trumpet player from germany, so sorry for my english. I would try my best.
I could buy a Bb trumpet, F.Besson made by Kanstul and i search in this forum for informations about building year, bore size, bell engravings.
But i don‘t get an answer that safisfied me.
So, i hope someone of you could help me.
„My“ Besson Meha, that i can get, looks so. I am wondering about the bell engraving.
I have seen pictures in the internet who the bells are engraved with more letters and words (some in french).
What trumpet have i?, is this a new generation or a fake?
Many thanks, BR
Björn

yourbrass · Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:27 am Post subject:

Looks like a Kanstul Besson, made in Anaheim, CA USA.
It's a Meha copy, large bore, very good horn.
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Tuningbell · Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:44 am Post subject:

Hello -
Hopefully this information will help you out..
Article from 1983 Below
http://users.actrix.co.nz/mcamilleri/Besson/KanstulBesson.pdf

For some unknown reason the owners of the French Besson trademark decided to make a new line of trumpet in the early 1980s. Fortunately they choose top US maker Kanstul to design and produce the line, and Kanstul faithfully recreated the original horns, and many new models too. The Besson Meha and Brevete lived again. These Kanstul made horns are beautifully made and play as well as the originals, without all the issues of 50+ year old instruments.

This is your horn...

From the early 1980s till about 1998 all French Besson trumpets were made by Kanstul, and some other Besson models also. Hence the Kanstul markings but another brand name on the bellKanstul was a contract manufacturer back then.

Sometime around 1998 Kanstul lost or decided not to renew the contract to make some Besson instruments, and the 609 and related lines were terminated. Boosey and Hawkes became part of The Music Group and was then sold to Buffet Crampon, and Kanstul still makes the Stamm and Classic models for Buffet Crampon. There are still French Besson Meha and Brevete trumpets available new, with some called the “New Generation” model. From what I have heard these are Kanstul made but are old stock, as for some unknown reason a lot of these were stockpiled in warehouses and not distributed at the time of production.

The bells on this model horn had three variations depending on bore size.
you photo reads PARIS above the MEHA indicating a .470" Bore size AKA Large Bore. The other bell markings are listed below. This information came to me from Kanstul many years ago.

Paris .470"
Paris France .460"
Paris * France .464"

I date your Serial # 2638 to 1984 based in the output of around 2500 in 1983. (You should have an excellent instrument as these early ones were meticulously crafted)

Kanstul built the first of the "new" Mehas in 1983. According to my source, who used to own one of the 1983 horns, Kanstul made exactly 2500 Mehas in 1983, and was particularly careful about making them "just right," faithful copies of the famous French-made Mehas from the 1940's. Serial numbers above 2500 were fine horns, too -- but the first 2500 were "extra-fine."

Here are some links to help you on your investigation
http://users.actrix.co.nz/mcamilleri/TheBessonLoyalist.htm
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1397817

JayKosta · Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:54 am Post subject:

Were the Kanstul horns made with bells that contained the 'PARIS' and 'F. Besson' engraving?
Perhaps an original Besson bell on a Kanstul body?

Jay
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Tuningbell · Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:03 am Post subject:

no... they were completely new horns made in California with Kanstul branding on the second valve and the Besson Bell markings on the bell they were reproductions with modern improvemnets ..

Tuningbell · Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:15 am Post subject:

Liberty Lips · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 979

This large-bore (.470) trumpet was made in Anaheim, California, U.S.A. between 1985 and 1989. If it is still in good condition it is an excellent instrument, appropriate for both lead playing and orchestral playing. Good luck with your purchase. If you are familiar with either F. Besson Meha trumpets or Benge trumpets, you will find that horn to be very comparable.

OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440

Ed Kennedy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187

I was a Besson (Boosey & Hawkes) dealer in the late '80's - early '90's. There were two different trumpets marked 'Meha" made by Kanstul for Boosey & Hawkes. One is the light weight large bore that has been described in this thread, the other was a ML standard weight designed to compete with the Bach Strad. I played one for a while and it was a fine horn. You can't go wrong with either depending on your preferences and playing situation.

I forgot to mention that we also sold a Brevette model (B&H/Kanstul) which was .464 bore. As for the .464 Meha, I never saw one. It could be that our B&H rep didn't make it available to us.

umum_cypher · Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:23 pm Post subject:

I have played a .464 since the mid-90s. Since coming back I now also have an relatively expensive mid-life crisis horn. But every time I pick up the Kanstul Meha - I just adore it. The sound, the soul, it's just so real and alive. Buy it!

JayKosta · Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:13 pm Post subject:

[quote="OldSchoolEuph"]

Tuningbell · Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:32 pm Post subject:

Tuningbell · Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:43 pm Post subject:

[quote="JayKosta"]

OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440

The circa 1880 F.Besson was the first modern trumpet. That influenced Holton, which departed from French bore progression, but adopted the wrap and basic principles. Holton influenced Bach and Schilke directly (and Conn indirectly). Schilke then influenced Benge who was committed to the French bore progression. Benge pulled Schilke back in the French bore /sound direction partially. The true French/Besson trumpet concept was not preserved, but rather continued in advancement by Benge. Benge worked with Autrey (who like Schilke was a strong proponent of science-based design) and also exposed Kanstul to the concepts. Autrey continued advancing the concept after Benge died, working in the background with Kanstul right up to a couple years ago.

Keep your eye on BAC. They are not just the custodians of the Benge name, they are the next generation for the continuing advancement of the French/Besson concept.
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JayKosta · Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:05 am Post subject:

Bogey Factory · Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:14 am Post subject:

I've always wondered why the Kanstul made F. Bessons were designed with the noticeably taller wrap. The few pre Kanstul Bessons I've actually had in my hand were wrapped much more like a Benge if not a tiny bit tighter. It seems that would have been a major part of the design and certainly something Kanstul could have done. The Kanstul Bessons seem much more Elkhart Bachlike in that regard.
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Liberty Lips · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 979

BKA · New Member Joined: 04 Feb 2020 Posts: 3

Hello everybody,

Many thanks for your great answers!
In fact there is a lot of information that helps me a lot to understand.
The only thing I don't quite understand yet is why the engraving of the bell stops on my with a star and on the many photos I have seen on the Internet there is still something engraved in French.
my:

from the net:

another question about the serial number; do I have the 2638 or the 12638?
and if my trumpet is the 12638, why is the 1 above and the 2638 below?
Sorry for the many questions and also if you don't understand me so well because of my English.

Bjoern

JayKosta · Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:58 am Post subject:

GordonH · Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:07 am Post subject:

That's an interesting article but it misses the main point. Boosey and Hawkes didn't make trumpets in the 80's to any great extent and they did not have the facilities to make any. Prior to the F Besson revival the Sovereign trumpet had been effectively discontinued. The student instruments were being manufactured in Malta. They had no professional trumpet and most of their output was brass band instruments. Paul Rigett was in the process of leaving I think and so was Richard Smith. The tie in with kanstul and the revival of the Besson trumpets solved this problem for them.
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