Flugelhorn: ACB Doubler's vs. Carol Brass

OldHorn · Regular Member Joined: 26 Dec 2017 Posts: 90

Just wondering if anyone has played both of these horns and can comment on the differences/similarities on both of them. I'll be playing in a duo with just a keyboardist, and I'm looking for a softer, darker, fluffier tone.

Also, anyone know what the bore size is on the ACB? I can't find that info on their site.

Thanks

zaferis · Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:06 am Post subject:

I can't help you with bore.. but to me the ACB looked and felt like a copy of the old Yamaha's

My experience with one ACB, was that it sounded wonderful but it was not in-tune with itself and I didn't want to deal with that. My other concern is materials - quality instruments age well, cheap ones break down-- but for the money a worthy instrument.

Carol side by side is a much better instrument, better feel, better pitch - but I would expect that for the price. Again, though, my concerns over materials used-longevity. I have no experience with CarolBrass long term.

I bought an inexpensive Chinese trumpet on a whim, I found it at Musikmesse, it played really well, and served me well as a student trumpet for a couple of beginners and as an emergency backup/beater trumpet. But has aged poorly-cheap metals don't clean or repair well and parts have worn rapidly in comparison to everything else I own.

What about looking for a used Yamaha, Kanstul, Conn, Getzen.. ? similar cost, but reputable instruments.
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TrentAustin · Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:52 am Post subject:

Zaferis

Quick question for you: Was this one of the older generation horns or one of the newest (6 months or so) generation horns? The only reason I ask is that the newest generation of horns is much, much better.

Also in 8 years of selling we have only heard about the valve guides giving out on the ACB. Pretty good IMO.

Of course anyone with specific questions about the horns can call us at 781-944-6247 or email info@austincustombrass.com (I don't post here that often as the shop/performing keep me a "bit" busy).

Best regards,

-T
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zaferis · Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:04 am Post subject:

TrentAustin · Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:27 am Post subject:

hmm. 5 out of the 8 might be a stretch. Most likely the wrong mpc/horn setup. We haven't heard any of those issues with other customers (in fact no others). Maybe they aren't trying to compare it to a horn 3x the price though as well?

Thanks for letting me know!
-
T
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GuidoCorona · Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:28 pm Post subject:

A useful feature of Carolbrass flugels are the two lead pipes included with each instrument imported in the US by the US distributor (Doug Teeter)... In addition to the standard pipe for large American / Yamaha / Morse taper, there is a pipe that lets you use trumpet mouthpieces.

And, if you were seeking the darkest possible tone, go for the Carolbrass CFL-9990... I believe that it is entirely built with red brass.

G.
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trumpet.trader · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Jul 2017 Posts: 200

If you look hard enough there are great buys out there. The advent of the internet has made the world much smaller and with a little looking you can find just about anything.

Besides eBay, trumpet herald, and retail stores online, I’ve found some amazing buys through craigslist, pawnshops online, good will and other such places.

Finding a good used Yamaha, Benge, or Getzen flugelhorn in the price range of new import horns like you mentioned are found more often than you think.

You’d do better with a more name brand horn like I mentioned for many reasons. Beyond quality, build, and finding parts and repairmen willing to work on them, resale is always better with a name brand.

And if you save a couple hundred dollars and wait a little, you can easily find a great Yamaha, Getzen, or Benge in the $800-$1000 range.

OldHorn · Regular Member Joined: 26 Dec 2017 Posts: 90

Thanks for all of your replies so far.

Zaferis, I'm sorry you had problems with the ACB, but that's exactly the real world type of feedback I'm looking for. I've read nothing but praise for the ACB, with some reviews comparing it to $2,000 horns. I'm comparing it to all horns, no matter what they cost. I'm just trying to get as much info so I can make an informed purchase of something.

I'm leery of buying a used horn online that I can't try out. I've checked locally within a 100 radius and didn't find any pro level horns that interested me.

I'm a comeback player, 20 years off the horn, but I feel it's time to pick it up again. I'm retired and money isn't the issue. I can buy an Adams, Kanstul, Conn, etc... but I'm trying to be honest with myself and have been asking myself if a top of the line horn is more than I need.

I know I would be happy with a top of the line horn, but I'm starting at the bottom of the list and working my way up. I don't want to buy something now and want something different in 6 or 8 months.

Sometimes it's tough being honest with yourself, but either way it's a nice problem to have.

TrentAustin · Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:21 pm Post subject:

If you can buy an Adams, buy one. They are unsurpassed!

The Adams are the best flugels in the world, and I have played everything out there (and owned everything as well).

We are happy the ACB flugels are so popular and work hard at them to continue to improve them. The most recent order of 200 is almost sold out but we still have a few left. They are a bargain instrument that is IMO far better than the price tag although honestly can't compare to a super horn like an Adams, Kanstul 1525, Van Laar, etc. They fit a need for most players looking for a good horn that won't let them down. 8 years selling them and great reviews tell me they are fitting a need for many players.

As always if you want additional info on the horn anyone is welcomed to call the shop or email anytime!

Best regards,
T
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NMex · Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:36 pm Post subject:

Old Horn,
If you’ve not played flugelhorn before, some can take some getting used to so far as exactly where the notes are. I’ve owned a couple of flugels and played a few more and I liked the ACB I owned. I really would recommend calling and talking to the guys at ACB. They’ve got some new ACB’s that I’m hearing good things about. The Brasspires are nice. I’ve purchased one of those as well. Then of course they have the Adams line and a whole lot in between. They’re great guys to work with.
Regards,
Mario
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OldHorn · Regular Member Joined: 26 Dec 2017 Posts: 90

I've played flugels before. I had a Getzen (896?) 4 valve that I bought around 1975, someone broke into my car and stole that and my Selmer K-modified. That was a bad day.

Then I played a Yamaha 631. It was a good horn, good intonation, but the tone I had was "trumpet-like". Now I'm looking for a "smokier, fluffier" sound.

Trent, what's the bore of the ACB?

TrentAustin · Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:51 pm Post subject:

Old horn call or email the shop and we will be happy to help.
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Christophomicus · Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:49 pm Post subject:

trumpetlane · Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:43 am Post subject:

I purchased two ACB Doubler Flugels last spring. I am super pleased with the purchase! It was cool to purchase two at a time because I could test for consistency. I found them to be exactly the same and very consistent! That says a lot to me. The only intonation issues I found was the the high G (just above the staff) was a bit sharp. This could be fixed by either lipping down or 1&3 alternate fingering. I compared the ACB to my Getzen, and a Yamaha.
Personally, I like each of them for different reasons. It is simply a matter of preference. Trent is right, there are some high end horns out there that are superior, but these Doubler's certainly get the job done. Overall, I was pleased with the ACB quality and sound and found Trent to be wonderful to work with.
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TrumpetMD · Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:07 am Post subject:

Dieter Z · Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:06 pm Post subject:

ljazztrm · Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:59 pm Post subject:

I had an ACB Doubler's. It was a good, solid flugel that did what I needed it to do.Especially at that price point! I had an older Carol flugel at some point. Maybe a 6 out of 10. Nowadays, I hear they are much better.

But I truly found a 'diamond in the rough':

http://austincustombrass.mybigcommerce.com/manchester-brass-pro-flugelhorn-with-gold-brass-bell/

I just wrote in a review on it. It's actually caused me to play a lot more flugel on my jazz gigs since I like it so much. And it's not just me, my playing colleauges (both trumpet, and non-trumpet players) really noticed it right away when I started to play it. Just the sound and fluidity - and the clarity. Very mouthpiece ressponsive too. You can get a lot of different colors out of it depending on the mouthpiece. I think I snagged it used for a ridiculously low $$ of like $700-$800 dollars. If you are a jazzer, I think you would be tickled pink by it. It's like if you had a really good Couesnon flugel from the 60's with no intonation issues or anything. I'll be playing it all night tonight on my NYE jazz gig! Best, Lex
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Domino · Regular Member Joined: 12 Oct 2010 Posts: 19

I love my ACB flugel that I bought in 2011, but whenever it hasn't been played for a few days the valves stick. Some times really hard. I use Al Cass valve oil on this horn (and Hetman Classic on my vintage horns).

Is there another valve oil you'd recommend that would alleviate this problem?
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Dieter Z · Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:33 am Post subject:

Same here, except mine is put away for several month at a time.
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ACB Fluegelhorn
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ACB mouthpieces for most of my playing

khedger · Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:20 pm Post subject: