Dedicated Forums

Cozy · Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2002 4:24 pm Post subject:

I hope the Dedicated Forums all stay!
I read bits of all of them several times a week. All have something to offer, at least for me. I lurk to learn in these Forums. I may be more likely to post on other threads, but that is because, if I have or have recently owned a trumpet or mpc, I'm gonna throw in my 2 copper insulate cents. If I've heard or want to know about a performer, I'll post.
Personally, I go to the Dedicated Forums more to learn than to throw out my opinions. I have the highest respect for Mr. Adam. PH et al. have done a lot to open my eyes even more. I love the Superchops Method and have learned from Jerome Callet and the Callet Clan thanks to Lee Adams. I'm intrigued by the Chicago School now that I know that it is more than a windy city...it is a Windy City.
I could go on, but I learn the most from these Dedicated Forums. The lack of posts does not reflect those who are reading. I'd be interested to know how others feel.
Thanks for raising the "???." Post on!!!

Cozy
http://www.cozychops.com

Tim80 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 1415

I also read tidbits from each of the dedicated forums. I think they are worthwhile.
_________________
All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire

edtaylor · Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2002 5:16 pm Post subject:

I often go back and read or re-read posts to learn. Also something may be important to me this week that wasn't last week.
_________________
Ed Taylor . . . a Messianic gentile

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

histrumpet · Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 4:00 pm Post subject:

[ This Message was edited by: histrumpet on 2002-03-14 17:25 ]

William Bentley · Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 11:33 pm Post subject:

histrumpet
I find Bacons comment very entertaining at best. He might be like a few others who expect the SC forum to be responsible for teaching them everything about SC and that is an unreasonable expectation. It is a support group and not an all out online lesson center.
Some don't even have the SC book or video 1 or 2 but those who are sincerely interested in SC the forum is a great resource. It certainly has been for me. Those who actually have the materials and can ask intelligent and applicable questions about SC can usually get some good help.
Bacon even admitted many months ago that he never planned on purchasing SC material and would "never" teach SC to his students.
I laughed myself silly when trumpetteacher pointed out to Bacon elsewhere in the forum that if he was in bed with Caruso then he was also in bed with Callet when Bacon sought to slam Callet disqualifying his method and using the tired old act of discrediting Callet making a statement that Bob Findleys book is better because of Bobs Pro player status. When Bugleboy pointed out that the Findley's book was very similar to Caruso after all Findley was a Caruso student!
Not to mention the many other times here and in tpin where Bacon has made needless negative public comments towards Callet. I feel confident and am encouraged that "maybe" positive change is in progress. If not then we might just have to fry the Bacon.

Thank you histrumpet for speaking up.

Just earlier today on 3-14-2002 an infrequent poster made a new thread in SC forum and had this among other positive things to say about SC Forum.
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"Anyhow, just wanted to say thanks to all those who have supported this board, since I know for a fact I couldn't have progressed so quickly (or perhaps at all for that matter) without reading first-hand other results and tips from SC users."

Matt

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William Bentley

[ This Message was edited by: William Bentley on 2002-03-14 03:02 ]

tcutrpt · Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2002 2:01 am Post subject:

Maybe it's just my imagination, but some of you SC guys seem to be very defensive. If it works for you, who cares who doesn't agree with it? I don't mean to gripe, but let's try and have fun and get back to what the trumpet herald is all about!

To add my bit about the forums, I love them. I've learned quite a bit from most of them and I dont' think the forum would be the same without them.

Matt

Cozy · Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2002 2:11 am Post subject:

SHS_Trumpet · Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2002 8:26 am Post subject:

pfrank · Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2002 9:29 am Post subject:

Just this morning I was thinking about how valuable the forums are to anybody here, and that the question & answer method (Socratic?) is a great way to get information out. For instance, I'd never heard of SC before, and though it's sometimes difficult to read about people being tortured (for their own good) because they "smile" to play high, or what ever sin-of-inefficiency they are commiting, but it's all very interesting and has increased my own awareness of what's going on with my playing. Turns out I do some of what they say is good, and some I don't use and wouldn't or couldn't. But that's OK. The Only reason I practice high note playing (above high E) is that my regular range sounds warmer as a result. Ya know?
_________________
"Truth is not in the heights but at the bottom of all things."
Paul Twitchell

histrumpet · Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2002 2:38 pm Post subject:

My reply and response to Dave Bacon's comments on Cozy's interview with Jerome Callet and the Super Chops forum on Wednesday was poorly thought-out and inappropriate. I am publicly apologizing to the members of the forum and Dave because my reply to his comments was a public one. The integrity of the Trumpet Herald web site must remain intact, it is the best site for sharing information on the internet. It would be a shame to make it anything less by engaging in petty bickering or sniping. Once again I am sorry if my moment of indescretion caused a problem for this web site or any members.

Humbly
Bruce

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

histrumpet · Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2002 6:39 pm Post subject:

hey Matt,
I thought I should clear the air since I am the one who got this thread to the level it is. I don't think that anyone would take offense to and occasional jab or dig, when they become a constant thing it really gets old. There are other sites where one only has to mention Super Chops or Callet and they are butchered right there on the spot. The Trumpet Herald should not be like that but has slowly become that way. Although I did not choose my words very well the underlying feeling I have has not changed and I will respond to any negative posts that are created for the purpose of throwing flames is the same manner in kind. Andrew, as far as Prozac goes maybe you can take a few and tell me how they work, I would like to hear about it from someone who knows more about them than I do.

Bruce

SHS_Trumpet · Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2002 7:44 pm Post subject:

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

histrumpet · Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2002 11:57 am Post subject:

I recently posted a reply to comments made by Dave Bacon regarding dedicated forums. Although I have not changed my position, I deleted my post as I felt my choice of words were inappropritate . After taking time to reflect on what I previously wrote I have decided to edit my reply. It is as follows.
Dave Bacon opened a thread questioning the validity of dedicated forums, giving the impression that low participation equaled low interest. I disagree. Lately a number of players with a difference of ideas on teaching and methodology has joined the forum. A small number of these members velieve, through either ignorance or arrogance, that the method they use is far superior ot any others presented and feel that theirs is the only legitimate way of playing. Those who may post in the dedicated forums don't because they want to avoid this group who have a tendency to lurk in the forums. I feel this is why participation is low.
I took issue with Dave's motives as he praised the content of Cozy's web site regarding Jerry Callet. I have to question why Dave would involve someone who has maintained a neutral position in the forum and has never had anything negative to say about Jerry Callet or his methods. The fact is that this man has given equal considersation to all the methods and schools of thought presented in the forum. When dave wrote "I learned more from your web site (about Callet) than from the forum" I feel he was using Cozy to deliver and underhanded jab at the Super Chops supporters and the contents of the forum dedicated to Super Chops. I don't think it is fair to involve a man and his livelihood in the petty sniping that has become far too common as of late.
I regret using the "business man in the stripo club" analogy but it is correct. People will do things in private that they will not do in public because what they do secretly is usually in direct conflict with what they openly say and do. These people choose to avoid alienation by friends, family, and co-workers by not revealing these secrets. I thought it was odd that Dave, one who has never publicly given any validity or credit to Jerry Callet, would know enough about the content of the Super Chops forum to compare it to information on another web site. I could only assume that he was a regular visitor trying to gather information but never was comfortable enough to post. By telling Dave to "come ou of the closet" I was simply asking him to participate in a forum that he has obviously visited in the past on a regular basis.
I hope this rather long post clears things up a bit.

Schilke B3Lb · Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2002 2:06 pm Post subject:

tom turner · Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2002 5:03 pm Post subject:

Hi,

After reading the preceeding posts on this subject I'd like to throw a few comments into the fray.

First--Ken showed a lot of integrity by apologizing. He's obviously a truly fine individual

Second--I may not always agree with any particular regular poster (including Dave), but I enjoy reading their comments (usually) . . . and this includes Dave's.

Sure, I get annoyed when anyone blasts the SC system . . . for I wasted 40 years of playing at a lesser level before discovering SC a year ago. When you understand clearly how something can benefit someone you get frustrated when people attack it . . . and that's true for all of us from ALL the different "schools" represented in the dedicated forums. However, I DO understand the very fact that it is tough to make SC work without expert help . . . and without it I can see why people improperly experiment with it and reject it. However . . . don't correctly . . . it IS a great system!!!!!!!!!

Third--True, the SC forum was getting a lot more traffic during the Ken Barnes controversy . . . but it wasn't GOOD publicity! People love mud, as evidenced by the way people are drawn to the tabloid magazines. The SC forum was dedicated to the SC system and we chose to keep it that way. End of story.

The door is open for a Callet "post-SC" forum but, since there are no materials to substantiate the new system, this would be indefensible and "suicidal" at this time. Its tough enough helping folks understand the SC system with the poor materials Callet released in around '86 and has not updated . . . much less try to explain something not written down or tested at all. In my frustration with Callet for not updating his materials I began a quest to find some great materials that can really help trumpeters out in cyberspace and incorporate methods I know will work. I found them in Jeff Smiley's "Balanced Embouchere" materials and now recommend them heartily to those who can't figure out the SC method with Callet's vague old materials. The systems are so darn similar . . . except to hair splitters. Smiley is no foe to the "SC camp" and has a wonderful book and CD on the market.

Fourth, I don't usually get involved with technical-type posts that draw the "hair-splitters" out to engage in long, drawn out multiple posts debating small interpretations of the English language--I don't have the time or interest . . . I just want to play.

Fifth, I believe the forum moderators spend a lot of time sending private e-mails to those who inquire for help. For this reason, some of the threads are not prolonged.

Why go public with a reply and have all the hair-splitters chime in!!! I'll bet all the forum moderators have taken this approach . . . I know that I have too in order to respond to individual posters needing advice! I wish every forum poster would publish their REAL e-mail address so they could be contacted for private advice rather than have to post publicly and start WWIII.

Sixth--I rarely post on the dedicated forums for yet a DIFFERENT reason than anyone has ever stated! . . . I HATE the fact that my comments can be deleted at the whim of a forum moderator, whether my friend or foe. As an American, I hate censorship. Worse . . . I despise the fact that my comments can be EDITED and changed by someone else too. I don't want my name at the bottom of something I did not totally write! If I write it, I'll stand by my comments . . . and if I realize I'm wrong . . . I'll apologize. If I'm going to continue to have my wife irritated at the time I spend hunched over the computer crafting TH replies to help someone I darn sure don't want them deleted--I'll post them where they will be left alone . . . and I'll really try not to be confrontational with those also posting.

All the dedicated forum moderators currently edit or remove hostile posts . . . and this makes for a "kinder, friendlier" forum than the old one. Overall, I love the new, "kinder, gentler" format much better too!!!!! However, this censorship also makes for a more boring, less thought-provoking forum!

Sometimes, in the heat of the moment, we may all one day write something we later regret. This is when we must individually decide to edit or remove the comments and be "man" enough to apologize. I've gotten where I truly enjoy reading all the diverse posts from you "regulars" out there . . . mean no one ill-will . . . and regard you all warmly. I've made many friends via the forums.

Yes, we NEED the dedicated forums. They truly help lots of folks! I'm especially grateful to my friend Lee Adams (who personally guided me to a working understanding of SC) for devoting scores of hours each week to help others! Hang in there buddy.

Thanks everyone for reading, and have a great weekend!

Sincerely,

Tom Turner