Dark Tone on Trumpet

[harryjamesworstnightmare]

[kalijah]

I'm not bashing anyone.

Just trying to help players understand the underlying physics that they are often CLEARLY interested in. But are oftentimes misled about.

The resonance of interest is in the instrument. Why is that not sufficient?

[JayKosta]

The value of discussing (and hopefully understanding) topic such as 'oral cavity' and 'tongue arch' is that some people are capable of changing those things WITHOUT it having any effect on their primary embouchure formation.
note: being able to make changes in that way is likely because of having very precise and specific muscle control. For example, being able to move your little finger without having any other fingers move in response.

If a person can change their oral cavity or tongue WITHOUT changing their embouchure, they might get much less (if any) benefit from doing so - but they were told that it should work great, and they wonder what is wrong.

And I'm sure this applies to many other aspects of playing. If you do something and want to describe it to someone, try to convey the 'whole picture' of what is happening.

Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[shofarguy]

I have only scanned this thread. Phew, there's a lot of pages! I have always had what directors called "bright" tone. From Jr. High i've been told to open my jaw, or get a lacquer horn and stuff like that.

Then, I asked a question here on TH about playing at really low volume, because I was forever overpowering the tiny ensemble at church. What came next changed everything about how I play and got me the results I wanted.

Pops McLaughlin has some material that I bet will help you, OP, the way it did me. Basically, I played with a tension based embouchure, where I stretched my lips across my teeth, pressed my mouthpiece against my lips until my teeth cut the inside of my upper lip and blew like heck to get the horn to play.

Pops teaches a compression based embouchure where one clamps the lips together outside of the center portion in the mouthpiece and uses that center to form something like an "ooh" inside the cup. I think of it as though I'm firmly holding a coffee straw with my lips, but not smashing it flat.

I use this form to buzz my lips at warmup and to do breathing exercises. I try to keep the buzz in the very center of my lips, so the muscles are balanced, side to side.

When I made this conversion to my embouchure, it took some weeks of periodic practice (I'm an amateur and at that time I practiced about 3-4 days a week) to begin to hear clear tone again, but when it finely cleared up and my embouchure gained new muscle tone, the sound was much richer and much less strident, which is the real term for what I was producing before.

Tension affects the sound the listener hears. It's not pleasant. With the center of the lips relaxed, the sound relaxes, too. It is much more pleasant.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[Rod Haney]

I know one thing for sure: when I do everything right (my interpretation) and the stars and planets are aligned, I’m personally pretty pleased with my tone (when the acoustics are right). There are some truths out there and I wish I knew more than a few, but I wish we could establish some areas of agreement. I don’t give a crap about the science, I want to try things and see what works, if it works the science is good enough for me. Let’s start a forum called “try this”👹🎺🤣
Rod

[wilder]

[OldSchoolEuph]

Please, this debate has no end because we are not all the same. But let's not make blatantly false statements. You can change the shape of the oral cavity - one need only a drink and a straw to prove that.

The degree of muscle control and awareness people have varies widely. Case in point: some people can move their eyebrows independently, others cannot. (And Besson would have us believe 4 in line valving won't work alledging inability to control the last 2 fingers separately - there are plenty of us who can alternate 1+3 with 2+4 without issue).

Given those differences in experience, those who cannot do, will never comprehend unless they open themselves to possibilities outside their own direct observation (playing). A good teacher works with a student to find what is viable/effective for that individual rather than try to impose his/her own approach exclusively to the potential detriment of the student.
_________________
Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[westerlystorm@gmail.com]

This is a fascinating topic for me. I call dark, mellow which is the sound I like.

I learnt to play the cornet back in the 1950's as our family were Salvationists and I played up to a pretty good level until I was about 28.

I then moved with my job to a town where there was no Salvation Army Corp band and lost interest in playing but not in brass bands.

During my time playing I bought (and still own) a B&H Sovereign medium bore cornet with a Denis WIck 4B MP. Together they can produce a nice dark sound. 1981 stopped playing, 1983 accident resulting in 30+ stitches in the inside of my lower lip. Embouchure gone permanently, ( I thought).

Now move on 38 years 2019, I retire from 45 years of running around the world like a headless chicken as an IT consultant (thankyou Cisco and Dell) and want something to fill my spare time other than family genealogy PC research

So I join a local concert band and take along my cornet, they give me a Yamaha 6335 to play, but as a cornet player it sounds brash (or bright is what trumpet players call it) so I happen to spot a Sovereign Trumpet for sale on an auction site. Great Instrument, but it still sounds too bright to my ear although our principal trumpet player, ( now my tutor) thought I make it sound dark like a cornet.

Stage 2. Buy a Denis Wick mp adaptor and use my old favourite Denis Wick 5B MP, followed by a 4b, a 4 and recently after 9 months and intense practicing during Covid Lockdown a 4W.

Back comes a darker sound that pleases me albeit not to my 1981 standard but at least it's something to work on although it is very "cornety" in fact recently I sent my tutor a recording and he asked if I had played it on the trumpet or cornet. Oooops

I believe many Ex. Salvation Army trained cornet players who move to trumpet do have a darker sound ( Philip Cobb comes to mind), due to being brought up playing lots of simple hymn tunes with lots of long notes and accompanying congregational singing and of course Arban, Vizzutti and other tutors all tell us that long notes are the key to developing tone and range, but they are boring to play

My advice is to listen to (and play) lots of slow melodies and brass bands and maybe try using an open bore cornet MP with an adaptor,( hey, it works for me)

So at 66 I will continue ( and struggle) to try and bring back my youthful dark tone and in the mean time good luck with your search for yours.

That's my 2 cents worth

Cheers

Gareth