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Calling all Giardinelli experts


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markp
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:27 am    Post subject: Calling all Giardinelli experts Reply with quote

I’ve read that original Giardinelli mouthpieces were/are something special. I’ve also read that different people made later generations, and that these are not so special, or at least are different. Can someone give me the lowdown on this?

In particular, I have a flugelhorn mouthpiece stamped NY CLASSIC GIARDINELLI 7FL. I suspect that the original maker didn’t feel the need to put “CLASSIC” on his mouthpieces because they weren’t yet. So what do I have?

There is also a guy on EBay selling “the last boxed NY Giardinelli mouthpieces left on the planet!” I ordered a 7M from him just for fun, but I suspect this isn’t the real, REAL deal either.

I know that Stork is in the picture somehow. Who can fill in the blanks?
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RussellDDixon
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Original Giardinelli Mouthpieces ARE screw rim mouthpieces. I owned one back in the 70's. Anything subsequent is not an original Giardinelli Trumpet Mouthpiece. GREG BLACK produced the originals when he was with Giardinelli in NY.

Subsequently, WWBW or someone gotta a hold of the original specs and produced one piece copies that are now defunct. They tended to come in white boxes with purple lettering I believe.

hope this helps
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markp
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RussellDDixon wrote:
Original Giardinelli Mouthpieces ARE screw rim mouthpieces. I owned one back in the 70's. Anything subsequent is not an original Giardinelli Trumpet Mouthpiece. GREG BLACK produced the originals when he was with Giardinelli in NY.

Subsequently, WWBW or someone gotta a hold of the original specs and produced one piece copies that are now defunct. They tended to come in white boxes with purple lettering I believe.

hope this helps


Imagine seeing you here!

Do you know if the later versions a pretty faithful copies and have a decent reputation? I actually really like my 7FL one piece. It feels great and has a sound that seems 5o be a little different and more pleasing than my other pieces. As for the 7M that is one of the last on the planet, we’ll just have to see.
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RussellDDixon
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If YOU like it ... that's ALL that matters. As with most older Originals ... the newer one pieces had complaints etc. The newer one pieces were supposedly made utilizing the exact measurements of the older pieces. You could attempt to contact Greg Black via FB for anymore detailed questions unless someone else chimes in. you can occasionally catch the screw rims on eBay where most want a fortune for them.
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thomasmarriott
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's true that the one-piece ( non-screw rim) Giardinelli mouthpieces from the late 80's and 90's are different than the originals made at the shop in NY. They are still good mouthpieces though, and in the "ballpark" in terms of specs. Terry Warburton, John Stork and Greg Black all worked at the NY shop. I don't know who produced the one-piece versions (I've heard they were made in Europe) but my understanding is that the custom work was done by Greg Black at that time, then Kanstul. Jim New, formerly of Kanstul, has scans of the originals, and produces a line of replicas for a Japanese company which sell under the name "New York Classic Brass". You can ask Jim to make a replica for you in any standard size, complete with the Giardinelli style blank. They are very, very close to the vintage Giardinellis I have.

The current owner of the Giardinelli brand name is Music and Art. They make Giardinelli trumpet mouthpieces, but they are not anything like any of the other Giardinellis from previous eras.
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Wrms
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I have a Giardinelli New York 6s. Is this a screw rim? I can't tell.
I always assumed that it was a one piece, but if all of the NY's are two piece, what do I know. If it is a screw rim, how do you remove a long installed (stuck) rim?

Mark
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The NY Giardinellis were great, but not consistent. I had a terrific 7M and tried others that were just not the same. I also was very happy with a 7FL on my Olds flugel. A lot of great players played them. I know for a fact that Danny Stiles played a 7M. I heard (but I don't KNOW) that Bob Miliken plays one and I love his sound. I believe that Freddy Hubbard played a 6M.

A lot of NY players also played Jettone mouthpieces. Steve Patrick of Patrick Mouthpieces has a line of Jettone inspired pieces which are excellent.
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wrms wrote:
Ok, I have a Giardinelli New York 6s. Is this a screw rim? I can't tell.
I always assumed that it was a one piece, but if all of the NY's are two piece, what do I know. If it is a screw rim, how do you remove a long installed (stuck) rim?

Mark


You might have to find a shop with a lathe and a strap wrench if it has been stuck for a long time. My standard procedure is to whack the outside edge of the rim with a rawhide mallet in a counter-clockwise direction. pliers are a no-no. some heat and penetrating oil might help as well. I'm fond of CRC "Knock-er-Loose"
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trpt2
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to disagree, and no, I am not a Giardinelli expert ,
But the older mouthpieces were indeed made in one piece models.
(Don't know how far back you're going )
I have a few from 1975-1979 that are stock, bought in person back in the day.
Hope this helps.
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thomasmarriott
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also have a one-piece Giardinelli from the 70's. And while I'm no expert either, most people speaking of the one-piece models are referring to the mouthpieces made by a third party after the shop closed in New York, and the brand name sold. The main indicator is the writing. They all say "Giardinelli New York" but the letter / number that indicates size is on a line below the name on the original models. The newer models have the size stamped next to the name on the same line.
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jimspeedjae
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted a link to this in the other recent Giardinelli forum:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eZwAPdsN9XXnjpmFEBatijpZMeAg6U0T/view

To quote:
"We manufacture a great quantity of conventional on piece mouthpiece, but our speciality has been and is the SCREW RIM model."

It goes on to explain "Why the screw rim" - click the link to find out more.

There were also three-piece models with interchangeable backbores.

Personally, years ago I was given a 7M two-piece. This was a bit of a holy-grail moment for me. I've never had a piece that worked just right out of the box for my playing like this, though a Schilke 16 at college was also transformational. For me - cleaner articulation and I found that I had far cleaner movement from note to note without any space in sound.

I still have and use that 7M now for everything apart from out and out lead work. I had a huge collection of Giadinelli pieces I sold recently as I just never used them. Having a large number of interchangeable parts, there were undoubted inconsistencies - a rim wouldn't always be exactly the same as another rim when marrying with the same size cup. In fact, the 7M I love has a very definable overhang where the rim meets cup when you run your finger over it. But whatever! For me, it plays and feels great and if I only had one mouthpiece, this one would be it.

The 10S is my second favourite and I kept one of those too. Again my opinion, it's the old two-piece Giardinelli's that have a bit of magic to them, not the newer ones. But then again - it's whatever works for you. I'm one of the fortunate few - I found my holy grail, but you might find it a dog.
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Karel
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In that old Giardinelli manual they compare a #3 rim with a Bach 3C, a #6 rim for 5C players and a #7 rim for Bach 7C players. In the eighties I purchased a few Giardinelli's and in the manual of those years they advised a #6 rim for Bach 2,5C- and a #7 rim for 3C owners.....
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Al Innella
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's a screw rim,the rim should be gold plated with the size engraved on the side of the rim and cup.This was to match the rim with the correct cup diameters. Giardinelli also offered three different rim contours ,standard, wide and flat.If it's all silver with the size only on the cup,it's a one piece,because there is no need to label the rim.
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krell1960
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al Innella wrote:
If it's a screw rim,the rim should be gold plated with the size engraved on the side of the rim and cup.This was to match the rim with the correct cup diameters. Giardinelli also offered three different rim contours ,standard, wide and flat.If it's all silver with the size only on the cup,it's a one piece,because there is no need to label the rim.


what he said !! +1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l3n3cxgrety9txp/IMG_0298.jpg?dl=0

A little history about these 3, All bought at the store around 80' or 81'.
I was playing a Bach 1 1/2C at the time at wanted something with more zip, i was told that their no 3 was the same ID as a bach 1 1/2C. They made me a 3S screw rim. It worked as advertised, i used it for POPS mostly at the time and SOme Wedding gigs, I also wanted a flugel piece to match that rim size, they even stamped 1 1/2C on their piece with a 3 rim. and the Cornet piece is a No 3 one piece, again i was told by them at the time it was the same as a Bach 1 1/2C. I never measured them, i just used them. so i have no idea if indeed they are the same ID.
I can't use them today, just way too big an ID whatever they may be.

Tom
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did we answer if the current Giardenelli's are the same as the old ones (only three sizes being presently available, notwithstanding)?
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JeffM729
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Did we answer if the current Giardenelli's are the same as the old ones (only three sizes being presently available, notwithstanding)?


WWBW only has a 3C Giardinelli for sale, so I'd assume they are closing out the line.

https://www.wwbw.com/Giardinelli-Trumpet-Mouthpiece-Silver-J47376.wwbw?rNtt=Giardinelli&index=9
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wayben
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hitting the pull down menu I see 3C, 5C, and 7C.
Wayne
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krell1960
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i love this description on WWBW:

Reliable, affordable mouthpiece.

Based on a tradition of old-world craftsmanship, Giardinelli is one of the most well-known musical instrument brands in the world. From expertly crafted instruments to high-quality mouthpieces, musicians of all types have turned to the Giardinelli brand throughout the years.

Although all brass instrument manufacturers make mouthpieces to accompany their instruments, few brands treat mouthpieces with such high regard. After all, Giardinelli has been producing mouthpieces for decades and, in that time, has spent a considerable amount of time refining its designs.

Giardinelli trumpet mouthpieces are great options for students—they’re reliable, affordable and high-quality. In addition to mouthpieces and instruments, Giardinelli also produces a variety of accessories, including ligatures, straps, lyres and care and cleaning kits for all your instruments.


this ain't no giardinelli mouthpiece !! 29 bucks? who makes 'em now?

are they an import at this point?
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improver
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually one gentleman here got the size comparisons wrong. The Giardinelli 7 is .65 inner rim and is just a little bigger and deeper than a 3c. I used to play one, even for lead. Great piece. The Giardinelli 3 is likev17.0 inner rim like a Bach 1. Mine was a one piece from the 90's. Great pieces so comfortable. Imho they were as good as the screw top originals.
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kokopelli
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about the 5S , Greg Black has copies of the 5S in the original Giardinelli blank (NY legend line)........but.....the 5S came later didn’t it? Or is this 5 a copy of the original 6S?
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