High School High Range

[trickg]

There are some tall tales flying around on this thread! In my experience, I don't know too many high school kids with any consistent range over High C. (That's C3, or two ledgers above the staff for those who are still slightly confused)

What was the highest note that I "hit" in HS? A double Bb. (more of a soft squeal than anything else) What could I play with any consistency? About an octave below that.

Even though my range has improved over the years, what a HS kid really should focus on, and I'm saying this from learning the hard way, is sound, technique and consistency BELOW high C. The more you solidify your playing down low, the easier it will be to play in general and to heck with the screaming. There will be plenty of time for that later.

_________________
Patrick Gleason

[ This Message was edited by: trickg on 2002-03-19 15:40 ]

[usernamehere]

I must also agree with what people are saying here. I am 16 years old, and obviously also a high school student. Highest note I've ever played is the G above high C, and while I've done it quite a few times, has never been of too much strength.

That really means absolutely nothing. I'd say my real range sort of fades around a high C or so, with C#'s and D's if used very sparingly, and not at too great of a dynamic level.

After reading some of the stuff on here in the last few weeks, I honestly did feel a bit insecure about my own upper register, or lack thereof. I talked to my instructor, and read the other side of things on here, and like others have said, range is just one of many things involved in playing.

I sit first chair in our Concert Band and orchestra at school, but there are others (upperclassmen) who have MUCH stronger upper registers than I.... and for that reason, they play higher parts in Jazz I.



But on the other side of things, there is no doubt in my mind that some people my age on here HAVE and most likely CAN play in that range, and that amazes me....



One of those "others" plays lead in our... "top" jazz band. We've played some pretty demanding charts so far this year, with the lead part ascending well above high C on most every one of them, and he's never had a problem.


We're now playing a piece that the Stan Kenton Orchestra recorded called "Alone". There is a section that builds tension, and is finally resolved when the lead trumpet plays up to an A above high C. (3rd part has it marked too... but there is NO way i can do it. )

Anyhow, he's an absolute madman with the part.


So... there are indeed (many) people who can do that.


Now... about high school people playing double C's... I'd really like to hear that so I can believe it. (seriously, I'd be thoroughly amazed to hear that done)


~Benjamin Heintz




[ This Message was edited by: usernamehere on 2002-03-19 18:13 ]

[Lazarus]

Thanks guys I really needed to laugh. I do not mean laughing at anyone or lauging in an evil or scoffing manner, I just mean lauging because this topic sounds so familiar. There are kids in my school that talk about range all the time. ALL THE TIME. I quote, "Well at least I have a decent range." I..WHA..I MEAN..HOW...AH... what can you say? I'm sure there are tons of guys in high school and on this board that have high range with a pure tone, but the sad part is there are many many students who try to stand and be the premier 'lead' player of all trumpet players at there school. Hmmm...sort of reminds me of animals marking there territory by urinating... its sick...AND... it doesn't work . My biggest pet peeve is when people who you've never met or haven't played with in a long time come up and ask you (before they've even heard you play), "How high is your range?" If they would like to ask me afterwords, thats cool, but don't brand anyone until you've heard the tonality, center, and artistic use of their trumpet playing. Give me the choice of a quadruple C (not the person, the note ) and a pure lovely tone, and I'd pick the tone every time. I am no expert and claim not to be, but range above high C seems to be such a small percentage of the playing involved in being a quality player. My only hope is that I will someday be able to achieve the range you guy's speak of. The highest note I've had to play in my concert music is an E above high C (NOT DOUBLE C). The big use of the high range in concert playing is picc. use. Now lead trumpet playing is a different thing. I have seen some monster high school lead players that blow my mind. Its kind of odd though- a couple of the lead players that screamed and really sounded genuinely nice in the high register in jazz, were in our regional concert, and there middle to middle-low register...was...less than appetizing? I guess you are what you eat...practice in the register you want to get better at? I dunno, I too unqualified to put my mouth and money farther then this. No harm or pride-crushing intended. Thanks for all the posts so far, they are wonderful!

Take care all,
Stephen

P.S. Nobody likes a cocky trumpeter...except for himself... and the mirror

[ This Message was edited by: lazarus on 2002-03-19 23:16 ]

[Greatest Trumpeter]

I've never worried about my range it's just above a C on a Bach #1 mega tone. Doesn't mean much to me that someone can play way up there because I have ALWAYS had better tone and technical skill then them. I just love to see the look on their face when I play Carnival of Venice, a look of envy and horror.(hehe)
_________________
SCHILKE
"O Music, sphere-descended maid
Friend of pleasure, wisdom's aid" -William Collins

"So live that you can look any man in the eye and tell him to go to hell." -Anon

[trumpimp]

All this talk about high school players not having that kind of range reminds me of some of my former hs bandmates. Very few had really strong range to about high D. The funny part is when they all came to visit after one year from college, they were screamin' double C's. I just tell 'em, "You gotta be kiddin' me." Must be something in that college water, hehehehe.

[Mark Heuer]

What note can you play after a two hour concert at the end of a long, slow ballad? That is your performance range. To me, that is a more accurate indicator of your true range than how high you can play after a good warm-up when you're still fresh.

[xwingband]

I agree with every thing that was said before about tone over range. At high school district solo festival on the Haydn concerto I got an excellent (second highest rating). But I was happy because the stuff I was marked up for were on tone quality and note accuracy. While what the judge marked off for was Precision, something I could work on not a more fundamental aspect of playing.

The person who said a 14 year old couldn't hit a Double C, has just never seen it. I won a local high note contest, hitting a double C, against all the upper classmen. To show it wasn't squeak they had a couple people who worked at the store, who were professional players in the milatary, orchestras, etc., listen to use to judge the contest.

[Greatest Trumpeter]

AWWWWW!!!! Haydn my second favorite song. But it pales in comparison to, my favorite, Variations on Carnival of Venice. Anyone else here love to play that song? It's one of the few songs that I find challenging enough to be fun.

_________________
SCHILKE
"O Music, sphere-descended maid
Friend of pleasure, wisdom's aid" -William Collins

"So live that you can look any man in the eye and tell him to go to hell." -Anon

[ This Message was edited by: Greatest Trumpeter on 2002-03-20 19:41 ]

[Lazarus]

There are contests on range? Wierd (in a cool sort of way)!!! Or do you mean a contest between several of your local players, just to see?
_________________
God Bless,
Stephen O.
_________

Bb Trumpet - Kanstul 1500A
Cornet- 1939 King Master
_________

[SchilkeB1]

Carnival of Venice is an awesome solo. What I love to do is play some Rafael Mendez solo or something that gets up there to E or F above high C and then relax with Carnival of Venice, chop-wise. I mean, the whole piece is just multiple tonguing and fingering, and the piece doesn't go above a G on the top of the staff until the high F at the end, which is not that hard because to get to work your way up. In short it's a solo that, once you've learned it, is a breeze to play, and an easy way to make the other guys mouths fall open.

Matt

[ This Message was edited by: SchilkeB1 on 2002-03-22 02:56 ]

[xwingband]

The contest is they divide you into catagories by age middle school, high school, etc. At first they have you all play the arpegio ( for example low C going up C,E,G,C,E,G,C to the high C) then they each have you play it individually. If you can't do it your cut. With whoever is left they do the next arpegio like D repeating the process. When they get up to the F or G arpegio they stop with whoever is left and you show as high as you can go.

It's the most fun of the whole day when they have it. Especially to see the audience (non-players) cover their ears because of the volume and high pitch. It's also sort of a benchmark when your younger to see how high you can play if you practice your butt off.

[dbacon]

DB

[tcutrpt]

Dave, I'm glad someone finally said it! This post has received way too many responses in my opinion. Range is nice to have, but it does not begin to encompass what trumpet playing and making music is all about. It is a means to a musical end, not the end itself.

Matt

[xwingband]

That was just one part of the whole day there. They started off with a solo contest in which they judged how well you did on yours compared to others. They had clinics for begginers, and one of my favorites where they had all the high schoolers and up (even few begginers wanted to try too) take turns improving on one of the James Abersold book songs. After that they had a few professionals tell their views on how you should go about developing your improv skills(like listening to others. just playing around to you got something you like, etc.).

It was not just about the high note contest. It was a fun day over-all.

[xwingband]

That was just one part of the whole day there. They started off with a solo contest in which they judged how well you did on yours compared to others. They had clinics for begginers, and one of my favorites where they had all the high schoolers and up (even few begginers wanted to try too) take turns improving on one of the James Abersold book songs. After that they had a few professionals tell their views on how you should go about developing your improv skills(like listening to others. just playing around to you got something you like, etc.).

It was not just about the high note contest. It was a fun day over-all.

[NelleTrumpet]

In high school I only had a reliable range up to B flat/high C and could hit the D above most of the time. Now I can play a few notes higher, but not much. That is probably because none of my teachers have ever been that big on range, so my studies have focused more on tone, technique, articulation, musicality, etc. I agree that most music is below high C. In all my years of playing in concert bands, churches, orchestras, marching bands, recitals, and other concerts, there has only been one time that I couldn’t play the notes on the page - when I was playing the Haydn on a b-flat trumpet and couldn’t play the high E flat. That was back in high school. If someone in high school can play a double C, all I can say is that I hope they never come to my college because then I’ll never get to play first part!
_________________
Danelle Wilbraham

[trickg]

I don't agree with the suggestion that HS music programs shouldn't be competitive. That's how budding young musicians get to be accomplished musicians.

I think that if you are a HS band director and having a high range contest is one way to get your students to practice (because you can't develop solid high range without it) then so be it. With high range comes better endurance and better chops, therefore the music that is presented to those students can be more challenging and at a higher level. Being in a competitive program is the best way that I know of to get better because you are always either chasing after someone's coveted position, or doing your best to stay in that position yourself.

I made some pretty big jumps technically as a Freshman in HS when after a Chair placement tryout I wound up third chair overall behind two Seniors, one of whom was my sister! I spent the next month or so fending off the upper classmen that weren't happy about having a Freshman sitting in front of them. But fend them off I did! The challenges were on some pretty tough music and I really had to knuckle down and practice hard to make sure that I could play it better and maintain my chair.

The end result was that I was practicing more which only helped the band in the end.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[pfrank]

The equilivent is a painting competition in the art department. You put up a wall of canvas and see who can lay the pigment on thickest. Not the the best color or drafting technique, just the thickest paint. Quite inspirational! Yeah!

[trumpjosh]

Normally I wouldn't post on a topic like this, but this is a pet peeve of mine. I'm sorry, but pushing extreme high range in high school is not usually helpful to a developing trumpet player. I teach trumpet at a university and I really could care less if an entering student could play double high Q. A good usuable high range is esential to an aspiring player, but I would rather take a new student with good fundamentals and a fairly solid high C than someone who had developed lots of bad habits to play extreme high notes for their jazz band. What I try to get my students to do is to play effortlessly in their middle register first and then to extend a big beautiful sound through the rest of their range (high AND low).

FWIW,
Josh


[ This Message was edited by: trumpjosh on 2002-03-27 10:10 ]

[trickg]

Actually, the equivilant in an art class would be to see who could draw the most realist looking and best shaded sphere, which is a practiced technique, not layering on paint the thickest. There is a technique to playing higher, it isn't just jamming the horn in and blowing hard.

I don't disagree that some bad habits can be learned in trying to aquire range beyond high C. I've seen that too in the volunteering that I have done with HS band programs.

With one kid that I was working with, I kept stressing to him (to no avail, he wanted to do it his way) that his upper register would improve if he would do some work to solidify his sound down lower and stop playing on a Schilke 6A4a. I even gave him some different MPs to try in an effort to develop his embouchure and sound. He wanted to wail and he wanted it now with as little work as possible. His was an extreme case though.

It's all very nice to say that it should all be about the music, but realistically, HS kids do compete with each other on upper range. I know that I did. But then again, I was also doing a lot of other work in the middle registers like long tones, flexibility studies and charactaristic studies which was probably why my upper register was more solid and consitent than that of my classmates.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP