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Rogerrr Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2020 Posts: 144 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:56 pm Post subject: Mouthpiece advice for beginning cornet player |
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A couple months ago a friend gave me a beat up Besson 2-20 cornet. On a whim I got it fixed and it was so fun I started taking lessons.....then everything got shut down because of the corona virus....so no more cornet lessons for a while.
The cornet came with a mouthpiece that only says “cornet” on it with no other information. Seems to work ok but I’m curious what a beginner normally would use on a Besson 2-20
I’m actually a sax player and I must say I am thrilled that brass mouthpieces are waaaaay cheaper than sax mouthpieces and less vulnerable to quality control problems
I basically play jazz/blues on sax and will probably do the same on cornet
Any suggestions? _________________ Sax player learning cornet & trumpet...and occasionally a little bit of trombone.
( so don't confuse me with an experienced player ) |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2327 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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You will get a variety of suggestions. Mine is to go for a mid-sized mouthpiece, from one of the big named makers-not a knock-off.
Appreciate the difficulty in blindly suggesting something: unlike a sax (in a simplified comparison) where you're matching a mouthpiece, to a reed, to get a specific sound, expected response, etc
With the cornet, you are the reed, thus the reed you're trying to match a mouthpiece to is unlike any other reed-it is unique. What works for me and many, might work for you and might not.
Start with mid-sized, middle of the road (not too big, not to deep/shallow) practice, practice, practice.. then down the road (2 or 3 years, or more, of good growth) you may go on a bit of a mouthpiece safari to find a better match, if needed.
So... for cornet I suggest a Bach 6 (no letter) a very good mouthpiece for cornet. A good size, with a popular shaped rim, and nice depth for cornet.
There are others: Curry 5 or 7 DC., Pickett 7C or BC., Yamaha 14C4..
I'm not familiar with the particular model you have - but there is a chance that the shank size (the portion of the mouthpiece that sets into the instrument) is not standard - before buying blindly, this might be something to determine. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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Jerry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 Posts: 2163 Location: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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If it seems OK. And you were taking lessons. And your teacher didn't have you switch.
Then forget about what others typically use.
You have no idea what a can of worms you could be opening by even thinking about using a different mouthpiece. |
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harryjamesworstnightmare Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 Posts: 167
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:43 am Post subject: |
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If it's working don't try to "fix" it. Renold Schilke used to say he'd rather teach someone to play correctly on their current mouthpiece than sell them a new one. _________________ Brian James
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King Super 20 Symphony
Bach Strad 43 Sterling Silver Plus
Getzen Proteus
Yamaha 6335HS
Olds Super
Olds Mendez
Getzen Custom 3850 Cornet
Conn 80A
Getzen Eterna Flugelhorn |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3303 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:08 am Post subject: |
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If it seems to 'fit your face' and doesn't cause lip injury or pain, then don't worry about it.
For brass, the mouthpiece is the 'connector' between you and the instrument.
Also, it's very important to realize that playing is a learned skill, and when done correctly does not require excessive force or facial contortions.
Your lips should be providing a durable cushion for the mouthpiece. The lips shouldn't be stretched thin like a rubber band, and shouldn't be smashed flat by high mouthpiece pressure.
Brass playing 'works' by having the lips flexible enough to vibrate from the air you blow thru them. It doesn't work if the lips are prevented from being able to vibrate.
Jay _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Rogerrr Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2020 Posts: 144 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:33 am Post subject: |
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Thanks everybody
I am fully aware of the perils of picking a mouthpiece blindly like this. I've had pretty good luck in the past getting a popular "standard" mouthpiece on sax. My assumptions when picking something generic is (1) if others like it, maybe I will too (2) At least I'll have a basis for comparison when I hear people discussing mouthpiece types (especially since I don't have any information on my umarked mouthpiece) and (3) If I don't like it I can always sell it
Also since a cornet mouthpiece doesn't cost too much (unlike a $400-$500 sax mouthpiece ) I'm not risking much cash. It costs about the same as a lesson or two --and I'll be learning from the experience
Having said that, I'm reasonably happy with this "mystery" mouthpiece....I mostly want to try a different one because I have no idea what type of mouthpiece it is and would like to be able to compare to something known.
Thanks again _________________ Sax player learning cornet & trumpet...and occasionally a little bit of trombone.
( so don't confuse me with an experienced player ) |
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bagmangood Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2009 Posts: 1352 Location: SF Bay Area
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Rogerrr wrote: |
Having said that, I'm reasonably happy with this "mystery" mouthpiece....I mostly want to try a different one because I have no idea what type of mouthpiece it is and would like to be able to compare to something known.
Thanks again |
The longer you can go before playing with mouthpieces the happier (and wealthier ) you'll be. Take advantage of the time now to expand your playing and when you can take lessons again, talk to that teacher. In-person, other people's ears are super valuable when it comes to decisions like mouthpieces and horns. _________________ More than one trumpet
A "few" mouthpieces |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:07 am Post subject: |
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Give your teacher a call. He/she knows what your current piece is and may have a good idea of which direction you should go, if at all. |
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Rogerrr Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2020 Posts: 144 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:51 am Post subject: |
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My teacher didn’t know anything about the mouthpiece either. It doesn’t have anything stamped on it except the word “cornet”
The only reason to get a new mouthpiece is curiosity and to fight the boredom of being stuck in the house during the pandemic _________________ Sax player learning cornet & trumpet...and occasionally a little bit of trombone.
( so don't confuse me with an experienced player ) |
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Jerry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 Posts: 2163 Location: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:50 am Post subject: |
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bagmangood wrote: | Rogerrr wrote: |
Having said that, I'm reasonably happy with this "mystery" mouthpiece....I mostly want to try a different one because I have no idea what type of mouthpiece it is and would like to be able to compare to something known.
Thanks again |
The longer you can go before playing with mouthpieces the happier (and wealthier ) you'll be. ... |
Yup.
Once you start, I'll bet you can't stop.
It's only the last few months that I've resisted the urge to try something different from what I currently own. I've been slowly selling off the ones I know I'll never use again, and I still have many more sitting on my shelf that I might use.
I think it all started for me when Ralph (was that the guy's name? He always wore a suit and tie) at Giardinellis on 46th St convinced me to try one of their new mouthpieces that he swore were fabulous. I bought several over a few months and they never worked for me. I sold them all about 20 ago years on consignment at a local San Diego music store.
I still have some Stork, Karl Hammond, GR, Curry, and others that I know I'll never use. I'm keeping some Callets, GR, Reeves, Stork that I use in different situations.
Rogerr, don't start. |
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Rogerrr Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2020 Posts: 144 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Well I can always limit my mouthpiece adventures to saxophones...at least that's a world I understand _________________ Sax player learning cornet & trumpet...and occasionally a little bit of trombone.
( so don't confuse me with an experienced player ) |
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tptptp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Oct 2001 Posts: 1409 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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I know nothing about cornet mouthpieces, but people who hang around the cornet forum do. Consider redirecting the question there. Might get some more general suggestions. _________________ Craig Mitchell |
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Peck Time Regular Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2020 Posts: 18 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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As a saxophone/ clarinet player who plays cornet and flugel, I believe a different mouthpiece MAY help a lot. Let me explain...
Sax players have very relaxed embouchures as a rule. This means that the smaller diameter 7C type mouthpieces included with cornets and trumpets can hinder our progress.
Try a 3C or similar diameter and report back! |
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Rogerrr Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2020 Posts: 144 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:46 am Post subject: |
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Just measured my cup diameter and it looks like 17mm....
Not sure how accurate it is— just put a ruler on the mouthpiece and looked at it through a magnifier _________________ Sax player learning cornet & trumpet...and occasionally a little bit of trombone.
( so don't confuse me with an experienced player ) |
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:58 am Post subject: |
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If it’s really 17 mm, congratulations, you just joined a select group of symphonic top players. |
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Rogerrr Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2020 Posts: 144 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:01 am Post subject: |
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What a great instrument- I can only play one song and I’m already at the top? Wow
The curve along the rim is probably causing my measurement to be off....maybe 16.5 is closer
Sure would be easier if my repair shop wasn’t shut down and I could just show this to the owner and try a variety of mouthpieces _________________ Sax player learning cornet & trumpet...and occasionally a little bit of trombone.
( so don't confuse me with an experienced player ) |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3303 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:55 am Post subject: |
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Rogerrr wrote: | ... and try a variety of mouthpieces |
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That's the way to disappointment and frustration!
It seems your mouthpiece is the usual size that works for many people - not too big, not too small, and doesn't cause pain or injury.
And DO keep the mouthpiece clean! I use a q-tip on the inside after every playing, and also wipe the exterior with a cloth. If the inside is really bad (rough looking, lumpy, ...) you could try using a bamboo skewer as a scraper, or even a small gun bore brush (e.g. .177 size). Don't use any iron or steel tools, they can scratch the brass.
Jay _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Rogerrr Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2020 Posts: 144 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:33 am Post subject: |
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And what’s the difference between long and short shank ?
Different size shanks for different horns? Or just another option to complicate choosing a mouthpiece?
My mouthpiece is about 63mm long _________________ Sax player learning cornet & trumpet...and occasionally a little bit of trombone.
( so don't confuse me with an experienced player ) |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:03 am Post subject: |
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Rogerrr wrote: | What a great instrument- I can only play one song and I’m already at the top? Wow
The curve along the rim is probably causing my measurement to be off....maybe 16.5 is closer
Sure would be easier if my repair shop wasn’t shut down and I could just show this to the owner and try a variety of mouthpieces |
It's generally held that the size of the mouthpiece is measured at some particular depth from the high point of the rim. This makes it just about impossible to do with a ruler. That and the fact that there's no consensus on how deep into the piece to take the measurement.
My advice would be to stick with your current piece. If you're really motivated to try something else I'd take your current piece and find a standard line Yamaha piece that's similar in overall size. This assume that your cornet isn't so old that it requires a length/taper that modern pieces don't fit. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Rogerrr Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2020 Posts: 144 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Thanks— not surprised a ruler won’t easily give the right measurement.
I was thinking of getting whatever Yamaha mouthpiece seems reasonable. _________________ Sax player learning cornet & trumpet...and occasionally a little bit of trombone.
( so don't confuse me with an experienced player ) |
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