SC'ers Tounge position

[tptguy]

Author SC'ers Tounge position
ScottA
Veteran Member

Joined: Feb 20, 2002
Posts: 134
From: Florida
Posted: 2002-09-01 15:39
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Maybe it's time to get started with some helpful posts!

I have been e-mailing Lee Adams and checking back through the SC forum for info on tounge position as it relates to articulation. It seems that different players have a different take on this issue. I believe that even Mr. Callet has changed his position in the past but I may be wrong about that.

Anyway, I have heard that some players tounge through the teeth and then keep the tounge behind (against) the bottom teeth. As I understand SC from the web site you are to keep the tounge through the teeth and against the bottom lip at all times. Those of you who are having success with the system-how are you using the tounge? Thanks for any input you can give!

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Jerry Freedman
Veteran Member

Joined: Jan 30, 2002
Posts: 243
From: Burlington, Massachusetts
Posted: 2002-09-01 18:46
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I can't say that I am having success but I am studying with an SC teacher and she told me to leave the tongue against the lower lip. Apparently it supports the lower lip and prevents it from collapsing inward.

J. Freedman

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histrumpet
Heavyweight Member

Joined: Nov 11, 2001
Posts: 647
From: Mobile, Al
Posted: 2002-09-02 09:29
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This was always an issue that I found brought many responses. What I have found is that tonguing through the teeth and off the top lip is the goal, where my tongue ended up after was not something I concentrated on. After tonguing in this manner over a period of time my tongue found a natural position resting over my bottom row of teeth and against the inside of my lower lip. My point is not to worry at first where the tongue is when not used for articulation, only know that you should tongue between your teeth etc. The tongue will find the natural position as time goes by and you practice. Hope this helps.

Bruce

P.S. Don't overdo the tongue forward concept in the beginning, it will only cause you heart ache._________________


[ This Message was edited by: histrumpet on 2002-09-02 09:31 ]

[ This Message was edited by: histrumpet on 2002-09-02 09:32 ]

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Lee Adams
Superchops Forum Moderator

Joined: Nov 07, 2001
Posts: 281
From: Atlanta, Ga
Posted: 2002-09-09 04:51
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Hi

Keeping the tip of the tongue in light contact behind the lower lip has always worked well for me. I keep the tip behind the lower lip in the vicinity of the middle of the rim of the mouthpiece as a reference point.
In earlier years in SC I became pretty proficient at atriculating with the tip going in between the upper and lower lip right in the center.
I have found the newer tongue wedge (tip resting on the inside of the lower lip) to shorten up and reduce the amount of tongue movement required for articulations. Plus it stages the tongue tip more in the direction that it will naturally go while ascending the tip slightly pointing downward and moving more forward while the tongue back and mid section rises.
This is an advantage that one of my SC teachers John Reid and his brother Steve Reid were advocating in the early 90's. They called it "viper tonguing". Identical to what is now called the tongue wedge.
They found it to be more efficient than the keep the tongue flat after articulations which Mr Callet was still advocating in those days. Of course Mr Callet was trying to help folks to get as much air as possible to the chops by teaching to keep the tongue flat after articulations in the SC book. Im sure that an amendment could be added that advanced students could shift away from keeping the tongue flat after the lips had strengthened from handling the full amount of air allowed from the flat tongue.

Regardless the added efficiency from the 'viper tonguing" or "tongue wedge" that the Reid brothers proclaimed makes a lot of sense because the oral cavity has been reduced and the chops are handling a smaller stream of air.
Steve could only make it to G above High C while trying to keep the tongue flat.
If he engaged the more efficient "viper tonguing" then he picked up another octave and reported more efficiency in all registers.

As always AAtozhvac@cs.com

Lee Adams



[ This Message was edited by: Lee Adams on 2002-09-09 04:59 ]

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tptguy
Heavyweight Member

Joined: Nov 12, 2001
Posts: 556
From: Philadelphia, Pa
Posted: 2002-09-10 00:51
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I recently received an email asking the following, "I do better to high C and a bit beyond by use of the tongue, but seem to have better tone in the low register with the tongue out of the way. What is your experience and opinion on this?"

I've found that I must keep my tongue well forward (like Lee is describing about Steve R. above) to keep the endurance up or to get back into the upper range. If I feel pressure on my upper lip or get any swelling, I know that my tongue is slipping back. But, I can also tell that the tongue is slipping back when I lose sizzle and zing on the tone even on the staff. I find that it's very easy to get a variety of "good tones" in mid and low register. But, the really good tone in those registers, I think, is the one that results from an embouchure that allows you to go back up top with ease and adds greatly to endurance. For me, that embouchure always requires the fully forward tongue. Best regards, Kyle