Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10202 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:53 am Post subject: Looking Ahead
I’m looking ahead to a time when restaurants and other venues that book live music will be hiring again.
I’m thinking of forming a jazz trio: cornet, guitar, bass.
I assume this combination will have some advantages over other possible line-ups including smaller footprint and easier load-in.
What are your thoughts on the musical potential (or limitations) of such a combination as opposed to, say, cornet, piano/keys, drums, or cornet, bass, drums? _________________ Jim Hatfield
Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 419 Location: Vienna, Austria
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:43 am Post subject:
It is a very good and versatile combination. You will require less space with guitar instead of piano. The bass and guitar combination will easily let you get away without drums as both can be quite percussive (Chet Baker also said that it takes a very good drummer to be better than no drummer!). Drums may also be considered too loud for a small venue.
The drawbacks of this format is that you will get less rest and you will probably also need to play longer solos. In a trio all musicians will need to be of a higher standard generally than you can get away with in a larger ensemble as you are more exposed. Be careful in selecting who you will play with to make sure you really fit well together.
A good example of this format is Chet Baker on the Crystal Bells album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBLpLBzRpd8 _________________ Schagerl Sig. James Morrison
Selmer Paris Chorus 80J
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:23 am Post subject:
The trio idea has lots of pros but having done this on the occasional weekend with a couple of musician friends (pre-Covid ) I found that my endurance ran dry pretty early. I found the keyboard, bass and trumpet scenario much better for my old lips. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2411 Location: Maryland
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:51 am Post subject: Re: Looking Ahead
jhatpro wrote:
I’m looking ahead to a time when restaurants and other venues that book live music will be hiring again.
I’m thinking of forming a jazz trio: cornet, guitar, bass.
I assume this combination will have some advantages over other possible line-ups including smaller footprint and easier load-in.
What are your thoughts on the musical potential (or limitations) of such a combination as opposed to, say, cornet, piano/keys, drums, or cornet, bass, drums?
A trumpet-guitar-bass trio is the most common format I play with. The band has a very small footprint, making it ideal for smaller venues. You need a guitar player who is comfortable playing and soling without another chordal instrument to rely on.
A piano is a good alternative to a guitar. And I occasionally use one in my trio format (trumpet-piano-bass). It's more flexible musically, but has a larger footprint. I also think the guitar is a nicer fit, if you're not using a drummer.
Beale talks about getting less rest in this format. This might be true. But in my trio, we all solo about the same (trumpet, guitar, and bass), which evens out the workload.
You mention drums. So I'll add that I rarely ever use a drummer, unless it's a larger venue and the custom specifically asks for one. A drummer adds to the complexity, you need a bigger stage, and you have another mouth to feed. Also, your setup time just went from 15 minutes to 30-45 minutes. And to make it work, you need one who actually knows the tunes and has "soft hands".
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8965 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:08 am Post subject:
You're a trad guy, right? Then, for that, I'd use:
Cornet
Washboard
Guitar _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10202 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:34 am Post subject:
Most of our gigs the past few years have been at senior residences because not many restaurants have the space, budget or interest in a 7-piece trad band. And due to C19 I don’t expect senior facilities to be booking entertainment anytime soon.
Thus my desire to form a trio that would specialize in quiet jazz standards. If eateries do resume biz I think such a trio would be a lot more marketable.
(I like the idea of adding a washboard for trad, however. The guy who plays one with Tuba Skinny really brings it.) _________________ Jim Hatfield
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8965 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:41 am Post subject:
Well, my mistake, stylistically.
If it's for "jazz standards" (actually tunes from "The Great American Songbook?), then I'd use cornet or muted trumpet, guitar and bass (or cello for interest/variety). _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
You might check out Ruby Braff's quartet (cornet, 2 guitars, bass) for some ideas. Great stuff, and just what you're looking for I think. Check out YouTube - Ruby Braff & George Barnes Quartet.
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10202 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:40 am Post subject:
Good suggestion! He’s on my list.
I remember a quartet gig he played in Chicago. The weather was horrible and the audience itself was scarcely more than a quartet. But he played beautifully and enthusiastically. _________________ Jim Hatfield
My teacher says that the double bass is the instrument in charge of keeping the pulse, not the battery. I thought it was a strange comment, but it may be true. _________________ Notice!!! Amateur musician without formal studies
Trumpet: Yamaha 8310Z
Mouthpiece: the great Yamaha11b4
Sax tenor: Yamaha YTS 23
Mouthpiece: Otto link tone edge
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 7:17 am Post subject:
craigtrumpet wrote:
Just try to get your trio to sound like this Man, these guys can really play!
What a marvelous performance. I really dug this video! Very tasteful trumpet playing. In addition to his fantastic melodic sense and command over bebop vocabulary, what an amazing sense of rhythm and time! Bravo.
I performed for a couple years with a bass/guitar/trumpet trio and it was profoundly fun and rewarding. _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 8965 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 9:10 am Post subject:
While that performance above is excellent, I don't think that's what you're after, is it? I would definitely listen to Ruby Braff. The cornet may be a better horn for your purposes.
I might use flugelhorn but that might bring some stylistic comprises for you that may be a little too much for your style while it would be right down the middle for me.
Ruby Braff on cornet definitely and you might give a lesson to Bobby Hackett. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
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