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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:53 am    Post subject: Looking Ahead Reply with quote

I’m looking ahead to a time when restaurants and other venues that book live music will be hiring again.

I’m thinking of forming a jazz trio: cornet, guitar, bass.

I assume this combination will have some advantages over other possible line-ups including smaller footprint and easier load-in.

What are your thoughts on the musical potential (or limitations) of such a combination as opposed to, say, cornet, piano/keys, drums, or cornet, bass, drums?
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beagle
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a very good and versatile combination. You will require less space with guitar instead of piano. The bass and guitar combination will easily let you get away without drums as both can be quite percussive (Chet Baker also said that it takes a very good drummer to be better than no drummer!). Drums may also be considered too loud for a small venue.

The drawbacks of this format is that you will get less rest and you will probably also need to play longer solos. In a trio all musicians will need to be of a higher standard generally than you can get away with in a larger ensemble as you are more exposed. Be careful in selecting who you will play with to make sure you really fit well together.

A good example of this format is Chet Baker on the Crystal Bells album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBLpLBzRpd8
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trio idea has lots of pros but having done this on the occasional weekend with a couple of musician friends (pre-Covid ) I found that my endurance ran dry pretty early. I found the keyboard, bass and trumpet scenario much better for my old lips.
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:51 am    Post subject: Re: Looking Ahead Reply with quote

jhatpro wrote:
I’m looking ahead to a time when restaurants and other venues that book live music will be hiring again.

I’m thinking of forming a jazz trio: cornet, guitar, bass.

I assume this combination will have some advantages over other possible line-ups including smaller footprint and easier load-in.

What are your thoughts on the musical potential (or limitations) of such a combination as opposed to, say, cornet, piano/keys, drums, or cornet, bass, drums?

A trumpet-guitar-bass trio is the most common format I play with. The band has a very small footprint, making it ideal for smaller venues. You need a guitar player who is comfortable playing and soling without another chordal instrument to rely on.

A piano is a good alternative to a guitar. And I occasionally use one in my trio format (trumpet-piano-bass). It's more flexible musically, but has a larger footprint. I also think the guitar is a nicer fit, if you're not using a drummer.

Beale talks about getting less rest in this format. This might be true. But in my trio, we all solo about the same (trumpet, guitar, and bass), which evens out the workload.

You mention drums. So I'll add that I rarely ever use a drummer, unless it's a larger venue and the custom specifically asks for one. A drummer adds to the complexity, you need a bigger stage, and you have another mouth to feed. Also, your setup time just went from 15 minutes to 30-45 minutes. And to make it work, you need one who actually knows the tunes and has "soft hands".

Mike
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Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, guys, really helpful!

Your mention of endurance leads me to another question. Does using a mic help?

If so, do you prefer a clip-on or a stand mic?
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"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
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1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle
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TrumpetMD
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jhatpro wrote:
Thanks, guys, really helpful!

Your mention of endurance leads me to another question. Does using a mic help?

If so, do you prefer a clip-on or a stand mic?

For smaller venues, I doubt you'll need a mic with the trio.

For larger venues or outdoor venues, I use a stand mic, a Shure SM58. I run it through a Roland Cube Street Ex amp, unless we're using a PA system.

Mike
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Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're a trad guy, right? Then, for that, I'd use:
Cornet
Washboard
Guitar
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Last edited by kehaulani on Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of our gigs the past few years have been at senior residences because not many restaurants have the space, budget or interest in a 7-piece trad band. And due to C19 I don’t expect senior facilities to be booking entertainment anytime soon.

Thus my desire to form a trio that would specialize in quiet jazz standards. If eateries do resume biz I think such a trio would be a lot more marketable.

(I like the idea of adding a washboard for trad, however. The guy who plays one with Tuba Skinny really brings it.)
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Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, my mistake, stylistically.
If it's for "jazz standards" (actually tunes from "The Great American Songbook?), then I'd use cornet or muted trumpet, guitar and bass (or cello for interest/variety).
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly! I have a Yamaha YCR-6330 with a Yamaha 14E moutihpiece that's perfect for it.
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Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle
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GizB
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might check out Ruby Braff's quartet (cornet, 2 guitars, bass) for some ideas. Great stuff, and just what you're looking for I think. Check out YouTube - Ruby Braff & George Barnes Quartet.
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good suggestion! He’s on my list.

I remember a quartet gig he played in Chicago. The weather was horrible and the audience itself was scarcely more than a quartet. But he played beautifully and enthusiastically.
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Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle
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craigtrumpet
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just try to get your trio to sound like this Man, these guys can really play!


Link

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Trumpjerele
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My teacher says that the double bass is the instrument in charge of keeping the pulse, not the battery. I thought it was a strange comment, but it may be true.
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Turkle
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

craigtrumpet wrote:
Just try to get your trio to sound like this Man, these guys can really play!


What a marvelous performance. I really dug this video! Very tasteful trumpet playing. In addition to his fantastic melodic sense and command over bebop vocabulary, what an amazing sense of rhythm and time! Bravo.

I performed for a couple years with a bass/guitar/trumpet trio and it was profoundly fun and rewarding.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While that performance above is excellent, I don't think that's what you're after, is it? I would definitely listen to Ruby Braff. The cornet may be a better horn for your purposes.

I might use flugelhorn but that might bring some stylistic comprises for you that may be a little too much for your style while it would be right down the middle for me.

Ruby Braff on cornet definitely and you might give a lesson to Bobby Hackett.
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