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New to cornet



 
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rnettleship
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Joined: 31 Aug 2020
Posts: 2
Location: Milford, NJ USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:10 am    Post subject: New to cornet Reply with quote

I am a returning trumpet player after taking a 10 year hiatus. I've manged to get my trumpet chops in reasonable shape and decided to dig out a cornet I purchased long ago. Looking for general advice based on the equipment I have. FYI - I'm not a jazz player, mostly symphonic ro small ensemble.

Equipment:
Bb Trpt - Bach large bore model 25. early 1980's vintage
C Trpt - Bach large bore 229, 25H lead pipe
Mouthpiece 2C

Cornet - DEG Signature 2000 Custom Series. Serial #K 6595
Mouthpiece - Short shank - McCann, Yamaha 11C4

Piccolo - Schilke P5-4
Mouthpiece Schilke 11AX

Questions....
1) What is a good cornet mouthpiece? I'm happy with my sound and range on trumpet using the Bach 2C but want a true cornet sound. The McCann is very mellow but also very different so I'm struggling with it.
2) Any opinions on the DEG Signature 2000? Is it widely used or is there something better/easier to play? Range is a big problem as I struggle to get out of the staff but that may be more related to the mouthpiece.
3) Any tips on how to move between trumpet and cornet?

Any advice is welcome.
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Christian K. Peters
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Joined: 12 Nov 2001
Posts: 1306
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:24 am    Post subject: New to cornet Reply with quote

Hello,
If you like your 2C, order a 2B or equivalent. The goal for cornet, is to sound like one, not just a mellow trumpet. Range will be affected, but quality of sound that blends soth the other cornets, that is if you are joining a Brass band. The UK players have a specific sound they need, so adopt that mindset for a goal. I play a Warburton 5D, but go to an XD cup if I don't have to play high for too long.
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Christian K. Peters
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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 7992
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my limited experience the legit cornet pieces are a huge transition. I've known a few trumpet players that have managed it but I was almost completely discouraged. It blows so open that it's almost like a completely different instrument. If I ever get the time and motivation I might try to find a piece that better approximates the BBB cornet sound without the hassle. I hear Curry has options.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
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TKSop
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Joined: 23 Feb 2014
Posts: 1607
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason it feels so different (or as a previous poster puts it "like a completely different instrument") is because it is!

It'll feel alien, but with practice it will come.

If you have the range and technical skills to handle picc playing then this certainly shouldn't be beyond you - but as has already been said, it's something that players from a strictly trumpet playing background often find difficult to acclimate properly too (something that isn't nearly so problematic in the opposite direction!).

I'd be cautious about taking the deeper Bach path - it rarely (if ever) yields a fully satisfactory sound and the sensory experience isn't there... there's something about playing a cornet properly, with the correct gear, that feels completely different and you'd be missing out on more than just sound by circumventing it.
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Subtropical and Subpar
Regular Member


Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 32
Location: Here and there

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trent Austin has put up a few Youtube videos over the years showing how mouthpiece-sensitive certain Conn cornets are, I think the 10A Long Model and 28A Long Model in particular. Both have the wrap of the celebrated Conn Connstellation trumpet that Maynard and so many others played, albeit with the conical innards of a cornet.

I have a 38A Connstellation short model and can attest that one gets markedly different timbres from C, B, and A cup mouthpieces, to use Bach's terminology. The A Cup and .485 bore of my cornet require a gobsmacking amount of air support to keep from going like a 1/4 note flat even with the tuning slide in all the way, though.
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Bach LR18072
Kanstul 991 aka "Kanstullation"
Conn Connstellation 38A short model cornet
Early Fullerton Olds Ambassador Trumpet
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Bflatman
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Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 468

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1 There is no good cornet mouthpiece it really depends on what you want to do with your tone.

Traditional cornet mouthpieces in the 1800's were medium to large rim size flat rim sharp bite and deep vee cup

If we examine the mouthpieces that I use in this context I have a cornet mouthpiece from 1892 a denis wick 4B modern cornet mouthpiece and a yamaha 16e4 trumpet mouthpiece made for rotary trumpets that is a good cornet cup shape.

The 16e4 is 17 mm rim and good bite and 12 mm deep

The 1892 17 mm flat rim sharp bite and 18 mm deep

The wick is 16.4 mm and 14 mm deep

The yamaha allows me to form cornet like tones on trumpet if I choose to.

The wick plays slightly brighter than the 1892 while delivering rich cornet tones

The 1892 plays dark and rich and sounds very traditional.

Note that the rim size of all mouthpieces is similar but the cup depth is governing tone.

I would recommend a wick 4B to generate traditional cornet tones

I have provided the specs in case you cannot locate a wick or wish to compare other mouthpieces and you can only use their specs.

2 I have no knowledge of the DEG

3 When moving between trumpet and cornet work on your embouchure and make sure it is strong so you are in control.

The secret is to play the instrument and not let the instrument play you.

If you choose the right mouthpieces you can rely upon those to form the right tones just play naturally and with confidence.

Play both instruments gently to get in the habit of controlling dynamics. This is useful on both instruments but more so on cornet.
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
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Joined: 15 Jul 2016
Posts: 534

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:36 pm    Post subject: Mouthpieces Reply with quote

Duplicate
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Getzen Canadian Brass CB 10 b trumpet 1995.Getzen 800 Eterna cornet 1989 Canadian brass 3, Wick 4 X Heavytop, Bach Megatone 5 B, 5 C trumpet mps.Bach megatone 4 B, 5 B, Bach 3 C, 5 C standard cornet mouthpieces.


Last edited by jondrowjf@gmail.com on Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 15 Jul 2016
Posts: 534

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Mouthpieces Reply with quote

Mouthpieces are a personal thing. Have primarily switched to megatone cornet mouthpieces. I use long shank 3 C and a 5C cornet mouthpieces on my Jupiter student cornet. On my Getzen 800 Eterna professional cornet I use Bach megatone 4 B and 5 B mouthpieces. The mouthpieces give me a deeper well rounded sound. Eventually I will switch all my cornet mouthpieces to a Bach megatone or Denis Wick Heavytop mouthpieces.
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Getzen Canadian Brass CB 10 b trumpet 1995.Getzen 800 Eterna cornet 1989 Canadian brass 3, Wick 4 X Heavytop, Bach Megatone 5 B, 5 C trumpet mps.Bach megatone 4 B, 5 B, Bach 3 C, 5 C standard cornet mouthpieces.
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rnettleship
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Joined: 31 Aug 2020
Posts: 2
Location: Milford, NJ USA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:17 am    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote

Lot's of good information. Thank you. I think I'll need to ease into this. I have a Bach 3C which at least does not feel foreign. The sound is definitely too "bright" but the V cup mouthpieces I have are so different I can't seem to have any consistency. An note near the top of the staff is mostly just air.

Since I'm a "come back" player it has been a real challenge to get my chops to work. I am very focused on reducing pressure but from day to day find a huge difference in my ability to buzz easily without using a large amount of air. Maybe the cornet idea is ill timed and I should just continue working n my tpt chops.
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GordonH
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Joined: 16 Nov 2002
Posts: 2825
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you intend to play cornet and trumpet you need to compromise on both. People I know who do it tend to be playing on more open trumpet mouthpieces like the Stork Vacchiano line or the Monette's I play on. They tend to be orchestral trumpet players and they tend to play more cornet than trumpet as its easier to do it that way round. Traditionally, cornet mouthpieces had flatter rims than most trumpet mouthpieces. I think that, plus the resistance difference is where the compatibility issues come from for people who have to switch.

I play a bigger cornet mouthpiece than my trumpet rim, but its the same shape and its not much bigger. Its an Alliance RM1 which is a bit like a Wick 2 but it has better attacks and is a little bit wider.
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Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Besson Prestige
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and Horntrader 3 rims

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM
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