Tongue tied

[Wannabe808]

Hi All,
Long time lurker, first time poster-just turned 60. I played from 7th grade to 12th and one semester in college.
Did okay, nothing great, always loved playing. Please accept my thanks for this forum and all the great advice here. Everyone is encouraging and supportive here to get off my butt and start. So I did but, didn't get very far.

I'm having trouble with my tongue. As a kid, the only thing I was told to do was say things like "tu tu tu" and "tu ku tu". I've been trying to learn what to do with my tongue. Many recommend say to touch the tip to my lower teeth, arch it/have part of it touch my lower lip. Can't figure it out- sounds worse. It's like my horns full of spit or it sounds thinner than when I have my tongue loose and back.

Time is available now, but funds are limited so getting an online lesson has to wait.
Any suggestions, guidance would be very much appreciated.

Mark

[trpt.hick]

Mark,

If you can flutter-tongue, just copy the action of the tongue. Otherwise, just say out load, D-D-D. However your tongue is moving is the way you should tongue on the trumpet.

Dave Hickman

[Wannabe808]

Thanks Dave.
I had to search for "flutter tongue" and found some good ideas. Chelden posted this:

cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 7774
Location: Orange County, CA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:12 pm
Tip of the tongue needs to be very forward in the mouth. I usually very lightly contact the gum just above my top teeth. With a light enough touch you can get it to seal such that expelling air causes it to release and close fairly rapidly. Experiment with where the tongue touches the gum/roof of mouth, and the width of the tongue to get a very gentle seal. Too stiff a tongue and it will not oscillate.

Never did this before. I can do the "where the tongue touches the gum/roof of mouth, and the width of the tongue to get a very gentle seal." and make a "growling" like sound. Cool.

Sorry, I didn't explain where I was running into the issues. For controlling pitch, that means trying to get to the top of the staff now. I'm trying to use less "cheeks" as "Pops" and others have described. When I look in the mirror, my cheeks are still too tense, and I can feel that.

Maybe my question is, to play a long tone and go a bit higher, how do I use my tongue?
Thanks again Dave.

[cheiden]

I would argue that moving the tongue forward can facilitate double-tonguing.

Bringing the tip of the tongue into proximity to the lower teeth is an approach advocated by some and something you might consider but I don't find it essential to double-tonguing.

The advise to bring the tongue in contact with the lip is something that some employ to facilitate range. Again, I consider that not recommend or required if all you want is to double-tongue.

My advice is to not think of Tu-Ku because it usually come out as Tut-Kut. Try a very slow and legato doooo-doooo with the airstream just barely being altered. Then try the same with doooo-goooo-doooo-goooo. I emphasize the long "o" and no final consonant so that the air remains flowing. Once you can do this gently then it's not hard to develop speed and eventually a more percussive approach as needed.
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[Wannabe808]

Thank you Cheiden!
Your advice is always so clear.

"Try a very slow and legato doooo-doooo with the airstream just barely being altered. Then try the same with doooo-goooo-doooo-goooo."
Makes a lot of sense.

btw- I'm working through "Pops" book "Tensionless Playing" and you helped connect a few of the dots with your advice.

Plz have a great weekend and thanks again,
Mark

[JayKosta]

Some people use the analogy of spitting a small seed off the tip of your tongue, or off of the upper lip.
For me, the feeling is definitely the tip of tongue moving forward. not the thicker fleshy part of my tongue - it is a small 'sharp movement'.

Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[Wannabe808]

Thank you Jay.
"...the tip of tongue moving forward."
That's interesting. Will try that in the mirror and then try playing that way.
Thanks again Jay,
Mark

[cheiden]

[Wannabe808]

Ha! Chairs being thrown. Love the passion here.
Great call on Charlie Porter. I’ve watched his embouchure video probably half a dozen times trying to learn a new way forward.
Great advice the other forum (Range development), there is so much here.
Thanks again for the advice and wishes.
Mark