Tongue Position

[Wangdrew]

Everyone knows about going from "ah" to "ee" when going from low to high. I believe this is called "tongue arch." The tip of the tongue touches the bottom teeth when saying "ah" and "ee."

However, I have very full lips and thus have to roll my bottom lip over my bottom teeth, so when I try the "ah" and "ee" motions with my tongue, the tip of my tongue touches the bottom lip and interferes with my playing.

Normally when I play, the tongue simply hovers around the center of the mouth, with the tip of the tongue not touching anything. Although I get a good tone with this setup, when I get into the high register, I get a lot of pressure in my neck.

Could someone explain how to do the "ah" and "ee"? Do I have to have the tip of my tongue touching my bottom lip (I heard this is called anchor tonguing)?
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Always trying to learn more!

[JayKosta]

The precise physical position of the tongue isn't critical for the high notes. Its the muscle effort of forcing the the tongue that pulls the principal elements into better position. Some people don't need the tongue movement, they can do the embouchure changes without help of the tongue. Other people get benefit from the assist of moving their tongue.

About the position of the tongue tip - maybe someone else can help.
But my guess is that it's a 'personal thing' that you need to figure out based on your tongue, lips, teeth, muscle coordination, etc.

Jay
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
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[gwood66]

Here is a link to a post on TH.

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1269085

There are many more. You can look in the Claude Gordon or the fundamentals forum under the heading K-Tongue modified (KTM) or dorsal tonguing. I am a believer in KTM. It was used and taught by Herbert Clarke who passed it down to Claude Gordon and others.

Here are my suggestions (keep in mind I am a comeback player). Think about keeping the tongue behind the bottom teeth, but allow it to move if it needs to. Trying to hold the tongue rigid will cause other issues and isnt really necessary. Instead of aaw and eee. Try Taw, Too and Tee. That may help the tongue arch forward. If you make the switch to KTM/Dorsal tonguing, dont give up too soon. It may take several weeks to a couple of months to get the hang of it.

[zaferis]

...before you even go to tonging. I disagree with the assertion that because you have full lips, you have to roll your bottom lip over your teeth... NOPE

Faulty logic, and I don't believe this is necessary, proper or going to serve you well in the long run.
Tongue position is a separate issue and one that may take care of itself with a well structured embouchure.

As I've heard a lot lately, Arban was French.. if you pronounce "tu" ala a French pronunciation, not only does it mimic a decent tongue position but also sets the corners of the mouth pretty well.

find a chop doctor and get some help!
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[Jaw04]