| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
m1tch
Regular Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2020
Posts: 18
|
 Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 4:36 am Post subject: Just fitted heavy caps |
 |
|
Hi all,
I am very new to trumpets and I have a very basic new beginner trumpet that I am gradually going through and cleaning up in terms of both internally cleaning, oiling as well as cleaning up the threads on the caps.
As its a beginner trumpet the threading isn't really that good and I can see that the quality isn't perfect either - but still good to start with.
I have been looking around at a few accessories/trim pieces such as button caps and noticed that you can get KGU heavy caps for each end of the valve etc, being new to trumpets I didn't want to spend a huge amount as I see that you can get KGU kits for £200. I instead opted to just try out some much cheaper alternatives which came in at around £18 for 2 different sorts. I mainly got the kit(s) as it would be useful for spare parts as there was a heavy brass option as well as a lighter 'hex' cap set along with stems etc.
I fitted them before practice yesterday and I can say that they have made a difference - but not necessarily the reasons as stated on the KGU site.
I noticed that the kit seemed to do 2 things, firstly its made the trumpet feel more solid and rigid (probably not an issue on some of the more expensive trumpets) but its also stabilised the valve stem slightly within the bore. Looking at the stock valve caps that came with my trumpet they are fairly basic with some fairly loose tolerances. With these new caps I can tell that the tolerance between the stem and cap is better.
Just thought I would mention this on the forum as I might look to get a proper set if I had a decent trumpet but they seem to give quite a nice upgrade to a basic beginner trumpet.
In terms of the musical changes with these fitted, the notes feel more solid and I can feel the valve bodies resonate slightly more whilst playing. Its an odd thing to try and describe but I think now that the valves are held more rigidly and with less chance to move thanks to the better support and tolerance the trumpet just feels a bit more responsive.
Anyway, thought I would share my thoughts, considering they only cost £18 for a couple of different options and some spares I feel that its money well spent.
Worth also noting that the threading on my beginner trumpet wasn't the best, the cap kit I have seems to have much better threading so has slightly deepened the threading on my trumpet (not a bad thing) but just something to note. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
cgaiii
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 1548
Location: Virginia USA
|
| Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 9:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
What make and model is the trumpet?
_________________
Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Picc: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Standard
Bass Trumpet: BAC Custom
Natural Tr: Custom Haas replica by Nikolai Mänttäri Morales |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JayKosta
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3303
Location: Endwell NY USA
|
| Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Just fitted heavy caps |
|
|
| m1tch wrote: | | ... Worth also noting that the threading on my beginner trumpet wasn't the best, the cap kit I have seems to have much better threading so has slightly deepened the threading on my trumpet (not a bad thing) but just something to note. |
------------------------------------------
Since everything seems to be working well, the threading difference is minor.
BUT, my wording of your description would be -
"the new caps were not a good fit on trumpet, they had to be forced on".
That difference in threading could be due to:
1) trumpet threading was not very deep.
2) new cap threading has slightly smaller ID than the trumpet.
3) the thread pitch of the caps and trumpet are very slightly different.
It's hard to determine which had 'proper threads'.
In general, it's not a good situation when parts that are supposed to fit together easily don't.
Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
m1tch
Regular Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2020
Posts: 18
|
| Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 11:41 pm Post subject: Re: Just fitted heavy caps |
|
|
| JayKosta wrote: | | m1tch wrote: | | ... Worth also noting that the threading on my beginner trumpet wasn't the best, the cap kit I have seems to have much better threading so has slightly deepened the threading on my trumpet (not a bad thing) but just something to note. |
------------------------------------------
Since everything seems to be working well, the threading difference is minor.
BUT, my wording of your description would be -
"the new caps were not a good fit on trumpet, they had to be forced on".
That difference in threading could be due to:
1) trumpet threading was not very deep.
2) new cap threading has slightly smaller ID than the trumpet.
3) the thread pitch of the caps and trumpet are very slightly different.
It's hard to determine which had 'proper threads'.
In general, it's not a good situation when parts that are supposed to fit together easily don't.
Jay |
I think it might be a case of rolled vs cut threads as the original caps still fit the same way as they did before, owing to the cost of both the trumpet and the trial caps there would also be some out of spec tolerances in there as well vs a more expensive trumpet. Its more of just a trial and might switch back to the original caps that came on the trumpet later to see what difference it makes back to back. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Divitt Trumpets
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2015
Posts: 520
Location: Toronto
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
|
| Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 12:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| If you are a true beginner concentrate on playing and don’t waste your time, focus and money on gadgets. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HERMOKIWI
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2581
|
| Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 12:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| delano wrote: | | If you are a true beginner concentrate on playing and don’t waste your time, focus and money on gadgets. |
+1
Heavy valve caps aren't going to do anything to help you learn to play trumpet and they may be contributing to the "slow valves" problem you mentioned in your other post. Because of the thread problem you mentioned the heavy caps may be putting pressure on the threads in a way that changes the geometry of the valve casings which, in turn, may be hanging up the valve action.
_________________
HERMOKIWI |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
|
| Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 10:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| HERMOKIWI wrote: | | delano wrote: | | If you are a true beginner concentrate on playing and don’t waste your time, focus and money on gadgets. |
+1
Heavy valve caps aren't going to do anything to help you learn to play trumpet and they may be contributing to the "slow valves" problem you mentioned in your other post. Because of the thread problem you mentioned the heavy caps may be putting pressure on the threads in a way that changes the geometry of the valve casings which, in turn, may be hanging up the valve action. |
This....er, I mean these.
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
