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Really old pocket trumpet, no idea where it came from



 
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Charlie Schomp
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Joined: 08 Mar 2020
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 3:36 pm    Post subject: Really old pocket trumpet, no idea where it came from Reply with quote

Ok, so my friend found this really old looking pocket trumpet in his attic and he has no idea where it came from or what it is. It has a whole lotta dents and some broken solder, and I was wondering if it is some kinda vintage horn that is worth restoring. It has an SN - 705584 and the bell just says "Classic." It says it was made in Taiwan somewhere too. He found it in this really old black leather bag with a red velvet lining and had a really jacked Frank Holton mouthpiece (Rusty dented, discolored, etc.) with a 1 printed in the middle. If anyone has a clue as to how old this might be or where it came from that would be would be great to have.

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oxleyk
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats, you have a POS!
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oxleyk wrote:
Congrats, you have a POS!

Don't be so fast. Does it have a set of white gloves with it?
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Really old pocket trumpet, no idea where it came from Reply with quote

Charlie Schomp wrote:
Ok, so my friend found this really old looking pocket trumpet in his attic and he has no idea where it came from or what it is. It has a whole lotta dents and some broken solder, and I was wondering if it is some kinda vintage horn that is worth restoring. It has an SN - 705584 and the bell just says "Classic." It says it was made in Taiwan somewhere too. He found it in this really old black leather bag with a red velvet lining and had a really jacked Frank Holton mouthpiece (Rusty dented, discolored, etc.) with a 1 printed in the middle. If anyone has a clue as to how old this might be or where it came from that would be would be great to have.


Here's what I got:

- No idea what it is or who made it. If it's Taiwan, then maybe it's a Hoxon Gakki made instrument - as they are based there. Jupiter is also Taiwan. I don't know how old these companies are.

- Despite it's engraving of "Classic" I don't think this is an old classic. If it was made by one of those companies mentioned previously, then that's interesting, but unfortunately, not particularly valuable or sought after.

- Getting a brass instrument restored costs a bit of money. If you were to have the dents removed, pipes straightened, and it cleaned - that could run from between $150-400, it's really hard to know without looking at it in hand. Also, I'm not a repair tech, but that's a pretty good ballpark.

- Antiques Roadshow gives people the idea that old stuff is worth money. They don't always show the clips were it's just old junk. For it to be collectible, it has to be something that someone wants to collect. Most people that collect trumpets collect them to play them. They collect older ones that are have a bit of history and are known to play well.

My Benge, for example, has markings on it the denote it as a instrument made in Los Angeles (actually the factory was in Anaheim) and from the SN# I can tell it was made in 1977 or so. Because the history of Benge is reasonably well documented, I know that Benge instruments were made in Chicago and later in Burbank, CA, before the factory in Anaheim was opened. They were popular with players, especially studio players in LA. Also Herb Alpert, among others, played a Benge - though his was made in Chicago. The older Chicago ones are worth more, the later LA ones, less and the ones made by UMI in Ohio that weren't really Benge instruments like the classic Benges are less, yet.

So, what do we know about your instrument? It's a pocket cornet, it says Taiwan and Classic on it and it has a SN#. I suppose you could contact Hoxon Gakki/Carolbrass or Jupiter and see if that was something they made some years ago. However, there aren't likely anyone collecting old Taiwan-built instruments like old Benges or Bachs or Martins. Once you spend $200 on it to fix it up, who is going to buy it?

This is the case for many, many, many old instruments. If they were good instruments to start with and aren't too badly worn, they're worth fixing up in the sense that they still can play and play well. However, you're not going to make money off selling it after paying for repairs it unless it's a collector.

I have an old student cornet that needs some repair. Let's say I bought it for $100. I'll sink $100 to get it fixed up and playing well. Now, it's probably worth about a $100-150, because it's still an old student cornet. Might be worth it if I want to play it, but I'm not making a dime on selling it.

My guess is that it's currently worth about $5-15 as a ornament or novelty. If you spend $100+ to get it fixed up and if it plays decently, it's probably worth between $50-150, but you'll have difficulty finding anyone to buy an anonymous instrument, so more like $50.

It might be worth fixing up to play, if you want to do that, for kicks. Who knows if it's worth playing or plays well, though. It's up to you, but that's a pretty good summary of the situation...
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy Finn did a good job explaining it. Two more thoughts:
-It may be worth it to ask a repair tech. If they could take out the big dents and it would be playable for $50, it might be worth it.
-It may be you could also trade it to them/someone for a mouthpiece or three bottles of valve oil or something. I would still feel bad just tossing it.

I looked on Taiwan auction sites and couldn't find this exact pocket-trumpet (most of them have the traditional spit valves), but my guess is it sold new for $200-$250 dollars.
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does not look very enticing.
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cgaiii
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does not look very old to me. From the wrap, particularly the first valve piping it looks a lot like those typical cheap Chinese horns you see on eBay and Amazon. When I was looking for a pocket trumpet, I found ones with this particular wrap to be difficult to play, but that may not always be the case. Even the Carol Brass Mini Pocket does not have this completely turned around piping. Perhaps I am off base, but it was a clue to me of poorly made pocket trumpets.
The mouthpiece is definitely old looking, but I would say unrelated to the horn.
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Charlie Schomp
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
oxleyk wrote:
Congrats, you have a POS!

Don't be so fast. Does it have a set of white gloves with it?


No, it did not have a set of white gloves with it, but it may have at some point. What exactly is a POS though?
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Charlie Schomp
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: Really old pocket trumpet, no idea where it came from Reply with quote

Crazy Finn wrote:

It might be worth fixing up to play, if you want to do that, for kicks. Who knows if it's worth playing or plays well, though. It's up to you, but that's a pretty good summary of the situation...


Okay, thanks for the info. The trumpet actually plays pretty well, it has some satisfying valve action and a really nice dark tone. I'll probably just do some amateur repairs myself just for the novelty of it and just play it for fun.
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dershem
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charlie Schomp wrote:
kehaulani wrote:
oxleyk wrote:
Congrats, you have a POS!

Don't be so fast. Does it have a set of white gloves with it?


No, it did not have a set of white gloves with it, but it may have at some point. What exactly is a POS though?


POS is an acronym for Piece Of S[omething not mentioned in polite company]
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pinstriper
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2020 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"CLASSIC" looks laser-etched. Not old at all.

This find will not put you over the bar to early retirement.
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Dink
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's trash. Please don't waste any money on it. I ordered one from an add in Downbeat Magizine about 36 years ago. Every joint broke apart and then the valves froze. The original cost on those was around $99. Just set it on a shelf as a decor piece. It has no redeeming qualities.
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tptptp
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most things that are classic don't say "classic" on them, because when said thing was made, its future classic-ness was unknown.
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Uberopa
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2020 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
I owned a pocket trumpet many years ago. It was a DEG Classic 800 made by KHS the makers of Jupiter instruments.Your instrument looks very similar to mine. IIRC it had bottom sprung valves. Nice little horn but with the small bell most mutes won't fit. Good for travelling or for fun gigs where it gets noticed a lot. Have fun with it. The sound is nice and the scale acceptable.
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Bob Stevenson
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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats facsimile to the Jupiter pocket trumpet and is not actually that old....perhaps 20 years max....note how good the laqueur is. I don't think the case is the original.

If it were older then it would not say 'Taiwan' it would say 'Formosa', or something itimating 'Free China' etc....I think Formosa changed their name to Taiwan approx 1970 (?)...perhaps later

The Jupiter is a nice littel instrument and takes up very little room. It has a very nice tone and responds well to different mpcs. When I was a brass instructor teaching young bandsmen I carried one in my rehearsal bag along with all the othr stuff I needed for a busy windband with 60 odd players. Whenever I pulled out the Jupiter there was instnt silence and respect! the only real probs with that instruemnt is the poor intonation as you play above the stave....due to the small bell flare.

NOTE; there are Amado water keys fitted which are actully copies....be very careful taking them apart as small springs and pistons fly everywhere and can't be replaced easily........run valve oil into the waterkey holes regularly to stop them getting hard deposits that stop the piston.
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