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connorspaul74
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Joined: 03 May 2020
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 9:53 am    Post subject: Some Questions Reply with quote

I have had one lesson on the trumpet. Forgive me for the elementary level of my post but I have a few questions.

How much pressure should the mouthpiece have on your lips? Is the idea for the mouthpiece to sort of float in position causing light contact?

How much should one rest when practicing?

Thanks,

Paul
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: Some Questions Reply with quote

connorspaul74 wrote:
How much pressure should the mouthpiece have on your lips? Is the idea for the mouthpiece to sort of float in position causing light contact?

You can tell if it's doing you damage. Cutting off air supply or a free buzz or any pain.That's too much. Too loose and it is not enough pressure to anchor the mouthpiece. You have to find a happy middle ground.
Quote:

How much should one rest when practicing?

The old saw is rest as much as youp play. And that doesn't mean to lump it all together, but if you do some practicing, say for five minutes, then rest for five minutes, etc.
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Last edited by kehaulani on Sat May 09, 2020 10:48 am; edited 3 times in total
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connorspaul74
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kehaulani,

Thanks for the reply. I think I am using too much pressure as my lips tend to hurt after playing a while.

Cheers.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're a novice, it's not unusual for your lips to feel funny at first but not in pain. Ease off and don't try to "build Rome in a day".
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn


Last edited by kehaulani on Sat May 09, 2020 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recommend you read my online document about embouchure basics that I mention in this thread (because it's unlikely that anyone else will ...) -
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=153158

The amount of mouthpiece pressure needs to be adequate to prevent air leakage, and to provide some support for your lips. Using mouthpiece pressure to actually ACHIEVE the desired pitch is wrong - you need to use lip muscles to control and adjust the lips for the pitch.
Don't try to achieve pitch by smashing your lips flat like a donut, that will STOP the lip vibrations.
Don't stretch your lips thin and tight like a guitar string, that along with mouthpiece pressure will cause pain and injury.

Adjusting the pitch (and playing higher) is a skill, not a muscle contest.
Don't use pictures of 'star players' who seem be using all their arm muscles to force the mouthpiece into their face when they play very high, as a guide. Yes for really extreme high pitches it can be necessary, but many excellent players never approach those pitches and don't need that lip abuse.

Yes, at the beginning you can get away with faulty embouchure technique (many of us have gone through that). But at some point, usually when you're starting to 'get good', that faulty technique will make more progress very difficult or impossible. It's better to start a little slower and learn the good technique from the beginning than to have to struggle with it later.

And you can find many many threads in the the FUNDAMENTALS section about mouthpiece pressure and embouchure.

Jay
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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connorspaul74
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks kehaulani, I'll try to be patient.

JayKosta that was an interesting article you created. I downloaded it and will refer back to it.

Cheers.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, welcome to TH!

Second.....ASK YOUR TEACHER IN YOUR NEXT LESSON. Seriously, that’s NOT intended to be sarcastic at all, but answering these type of questions are one of the primary reasons for having a private teacher. There are lots of knowledgeable people here, and there is nothing wrong with posting your questions, but an in-person teacher should be in a much better position to help you.

And third: stick around, let us know how it goes!

Brad
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"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
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connorspaul74
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad361 wrote:
First, welcome to TH!

Second.....ASK YOUR TEACHER IN YOUR NEXT LESSON. Seriously, that’s NOT intended to be sarcastic at all, but answering these type of questions are one of the primary reasons for having a private teacher. There are lots of knowledgeable people here, and there is nothing wrong with posting your questions, but an in-person teacher should be in a much better position to help you.

And third: stick around, let us know how it goes!

Brad


Thanks Brad, I appreciate it. You are right about asking my teacher in our next lesson. I am making a little list for him.

Cheers.
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Bill_Bumps
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Joined: 07 May 2019
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: Some Questions Reply with quote

connorspaul74 wrote:

How much should one rest when practicing?


I second what Kehaulani says. Personally, I warm up with a few pages from Arban's, Then rest for five minutes or so. Then, after each couple of tunes in my practice session, rest another five minutes. Repeat until my lips feel tired.

That's what works for me.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

connorspaul74 wrote:
... You are right about asking my teacher in our next lesson. I am making a little list for him.

----------------------------------------
Discussion with your teacher is great, but there are a few considerations due to different 'teaching styles'.
1) Some teachers don't like to describe 'what to do' (because how each individual 'does it' can be slightly different). The teacher might rather talk about 'what is to be accomplished'.
2) Some teachers prefer to talk about the results you're producing, and to guide you to recognize 'good results'.
3) Some teachers talk about how 'inside mouth' sensations feel using technical jargon such as: air compression, air speed / velocity, warm air, cold air, focused air, etc. Don't get hung-up on specific terminology. Perhaps ask the teacher demonstrate, and then WATCH carefully.

Your teacher likely is a good player and has developed his own way of embouchure usage. Learn what are the 'core principles' that he uses.

Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
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connorspaul74
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Joined: 03 May 2020
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some good news. The pain I was experiencing seems to have gone away. Not sure if it was technique, newness to the instrument, or some combination of the two. Regardless, I am pleased.
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Lionel
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 2:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Some Questions Reply with quote

connorspaul74 wrote:
I have had one lesson on the trumpet. Forgive me for the elementary level of my post but I have a few questions.

How much pressure should the mouthpiece have on your lips? Is the idea for the mouthpiece to sort of float in position causing light contact?

How much should one rest when practicing?

Thanks,

Paul


When practicing: Why kill yourself? Limit your arm pressure to the same contact pressure you find necessary to play the tuning note at mezzo forte volume. You don't want to bend your teeth back probly ever. So by limiting the contact pressure during practice you're never tearing anything down.

Similar to playing the tuning note the whole range of the instrument can be played without more than mild contact pressure. Even a double C is playable with only the normal amount of pressure we use for blowing a tuning note.

But such notes can not always be played on ordinary embouchures. I've finally switched over to the correct embouchure as described in the Stevens-Costello Triple C Embouchure Technique book. Even though I've only been on this particular system for six months I'm able to blow up to double C with only the amount of pressure found when the valve casing rests only on the palm of my hand.

In years past I did not play correctly and instead developed a limited range. The way I was originally taught didn't take into account physics. Like all other kids of my day I was directed to play trumpet with whatever way my lips first produced a sound after blowing air through them.

Luckier than most I still developed a solid high F. This however required too much arm pressure. In turn this limited my endurance. Eventually breaking my right front top incisor to break in 2018. In turn this condition ruined my former embouchure.

This however was a blessing well disguised. As with nothing else better to do I learned to form my embouchure CORRECTLY since then. And now the sky is the limit.
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