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Buying Vintage



 
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evilkoala
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 3:15 pm    Post subject: Buying Vintage Reply with quote

I read enough on this forum the general consensus is unless you're playing in a small brass quintet or solo at church, you want a modern cornet.

Vintage horns have their own attractiveness though, just to own or play one in the right setting.

With that being said, I'm looking at a few vintage cornets and aside from condition of the horn, assuming it's restored or in very good condition, can anyone tell me if they've owned or played one of these? I don't know much about vintage horns and don't have the money to buy a bunch of them to try out.

I'm looking at a Conn New Invention (circus bore), L&H Duplex, and a York Monarch.

Thanks for any help you guys can give me!
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Oncewasaplayer
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what sort of playing will you be doing? What sort of musical situations?
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evilkoala
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brass quintets around Christmas, and I was thinking I could use it for church when they say the trumpet is "too loud" lol
I do play in some community bands and a BBB occasionally, but from what I understand these old horns don't have the dynamic power and get drowned out by modern cornets. Would the bore factor in for a BBB, if the vintage cornet is a large bore maybe it wouldn't be an issue?

But primarily quintets and solo with an organ.

Thanks for your help!
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bunny
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two very important factors:
Pitch level- many old cornets are built to a different pitch from A=440. This can be higher or lower, making it very difficult to tune to a modern group or organ.
Valve tightness- Many old horns, even thought cosmetically quite attractive have very leaky valves. (Most were never as tight as a modern horn at the start.)
The old cornets have varied and lovely sounds and can be useful if they are tight and can be tuned.
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delano
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have limited experience and limited money vintage is not a good idea.
In fact all my vintage horns are (were) nice on display and that’s it. Sometimes I play them for notalgic reasons. Playing vintage means normally spending lots of money on valve jobs and if you want them in original condition, replating or relacqering and then you may have a useable instrument. Try to find a ML Getzen Eterna 800 cornet and it will do everything you want but then better, easier and cheaper.
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adagiotrumpet
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delano wrote:
If you have limited experience and limited money vintage is not a good idea.
In fact all my vintage horns are (were) nice on display and that’s it. Sometimes I play them for notalgic reasons. Playing vintage means normally spending lots of money on valve jobs and if you want them in original condition, replating or relacqering and then you may have a useable instrument. Try to find a ML Getzen Eterna 800 cornet and it will do everything you want but then better, easier and cheaper.


I agree. I have several vintage horns. Some I bought were "closet queens" and play like new. But most of them needed work to make them playable and often involved making quite a monetary investment. There is no guarantee that even after repairing a vintage horn that it will be playable enough to use in a public setting. The advice to buy a more modern instrument is sound. Used cornets tend to be less expensive than trumpets. First purchase a newer cornet that is playable, then maybe consider buying a vintage instrument. At least you will already have a playable benchmark to use as a reference as to the playability of the vintage instrument.
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evilkoala
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are Getzens underrated? I don't think I've ever sat next to someone playing one, but I've always heard good things about them on this site.

I guess I have the vintage horn bug (ooh shiny!). I play my Bach Strad trumpet for everything so I'm not worried about needing it professionally right away. I was thinking of investing in a valve job if I find a horn I really like, but I'm a little hesitant now since you're saying it still might not sound too much better with replated valves. Does it depend who does the restoration??

I'd like to eventually get a piccolo trumpet and my friend recommended a Getzen 4 for the price and quality.

So looking at the vintage cornets I originally named, it really doesn't matter you're saying because they're all from the same era they are all a crapshoot. One of them doesn't stand out as having better craftmanship? Just asking in case I'm missing something. I have to trust the advice of people who have actually owned way more horns than I have.
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evilkoala
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow those Getzen Eterna 800s are at least 1k on eBay
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 8:45 pm    Post subject: Getzen 800 cornet Reply with quote

I agree with a previous poster to buy a newer cornet for playing in a band. Have owed older cornets/trumpets, I prefer modern cornets. Found out how much I dislike not having a 1st slide thumb slide or not having a 3rd slide fixed ring.
After playing many cornets, I found the Getzen 800 Eterna cornet. Liked the intermediate Getzen 590 model, but disliked the 1st slide trigger and adjustable 3 rd slide ring.
Then I bought in September 2019, on ebay, a Getzen 800 Eterna cornet for $611.00 dollars plus $25.00 dollars for shipping.
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evilkoala
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Getzen you picked up for 600, was it in good shape or did it need any work? I know eBay is always a risk. I hadn't thought of the third slide ring missing. I'd have to be good at the 'old lip tuning.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

evilkoala wrote:
The Getzen you picked up for 600, was it in good shape or did it need any work? I know eBay is always a risk. I hadn't thought of the third slide ring missing. I'd have to be good at the 'old lip tuning.

Or you could get it fixed for a reasonable amount.
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 9:48 pm    Post subject: Getzen eterna Reply with quote

The Getzen 800 Eterna cornet was in excellent shape. A few scratches and dings, nothing that noticeable. Have owed 400 an 500 models, but enjoyed the sound of the 800 better.
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darksmoke
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Others have said to rather look at a modern cornet instead, which may be the move; however, strictly speaking from my own experience with the Conn New Invention (assuming you're still interested), I feel it is capable of keeping up with modern cornets for the most part: In terms of volume, you could likely get close to the same as modern but it would also be more capable of maintaining the 'cornetness' of it at said point (may require a slight embouchure/ technique change in how you deliver the air to accomplish). The tone/ timbre is likely more 'cornet' than most modern ones and I find it rather easy to play soft and quiet. The "circus bore" isn't too noticeable but you may feel you get a little more winded if playing for long enough. Dynamic changes feel pretty breezy and cutoffs are clean with the correct mouthpiece (v-cup). It is heavier than both my other horns and looks very artful. I imagine playing it with your said small group w/ organ would work rather well, especially for Christmas style music that time of year. Will likely take time to adjust and understand it. As always, YMMV.
- - - - -
I got mine- 'quadruple' gold plate, bell engraved, and original, also plated, MP- for around $650 with a decent case a couple years back. From what I understand, this is the rather upper part of the average vintage cornet price range at this time. This was after all repairs and work from a shop and I haven't had to oil the valves more than twice yet, I am unsure how they still work so well after all this time.
Keep in mind I don't need to match well with any other (modern) instrument, in which case a modern one may work better of course. Best would be to try everything in person and personally pick out what you like best for the job.
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evilkoala
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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2020 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once played a 4 hour polka gig, outdoors, for an event. I don't usually use my large bore C trumpet, but I took it to this gig to make sight reading a little easier. After about 2 hours of playing, it got hard to keep it in tune. I realized it was probably the bore and I made sure I pushed enough full and steady air, and voila!

Also relates story, my Bach Strad, over noticed the same thing. I could take it out after a month of not using it and the valves still move. That horn used to be used every day in school, and every other day at least after college, it's lasted the test of time. I can even pop out the second slide and get a satisfying "pop". Maybe I got a good one. The Bach is 25 years old.

What you're saying about the Conn New Invention, that's actually what I was thinking. It's 10 years older than the other ones I'm looking at so it's closer to more modern horns if that has anything to do with it. It's also clearly not a pea shooter so I think if you can handle the larger bore with the right MP you might be able to blend with other corners depending on the group. Yes I'm definitely trying these horns out first.

Thanks for everyone's great advice!
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adc
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have the circus bore. I have the Medium-1909 Perfected Wonder which I believe other than the bore is the same. I have the 1911 Perfected Wonder in the small bore. Really not a lot of difference. Honestly just buy the Strad 184 ML and you will never look Back. It plays however you want it to.

Here is a video on the 1911 ..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoJqvvI9GAA&t=14s
the 1909;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0kuYrLQKEo&t=202s

Lots of other horns on 101psu1 You can get a feel for them
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