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BarryWilson Regular Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 32
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 9:22 am Post subject: Embouchure Efficiency |
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Would there be any advantage to using a larger mouthpiece than normal...during warm up and occasional practice routines...to improve embouchure efficiency? _________________ Barry Wilson
Hodges, SC
Yamaha YTR 8310ZII Bobby Shew Custom
Yamaha YTR 8335 Gen I Xeno (Back up horn)
Yamaha Bobby Shew Flugel
Leblanc Paris C |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3303 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 10:06 am Post subject: |
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What do you mean by 'embouchure efficiency'?
Are you striving to increase endurance - i.e. having more good playing duration before your chops get tired?
My guess is that sensible practice using your regular mouthpiece is best.
Your lip muscles might become stronger by using a oversized mouthpiece, but perhaps also reduce the precise skill and control when using the regular mouthpiece.
Jay _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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BarryWilson Regular Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 32
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 1:15 pm Post subject: Embouchure Efficiency |
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JayKosta wrote: | What do you mean by 'embouchure efficiency'?
Are you striving to increase endurance - i.e. having more good playing duration before your chops get tired?
My guess is that sensible practice using your regular mouthpiece is best.
Your lip muscles might become stronger by using a oversized mouthpiece, but perhaps also reduce the precise skill and control when using the regular mouthpiece.
Jay |
Endurance would, indeed, be helpful. Some years ago a teacher looked at my embouchure through a visualizer and said I needed to get my lips closer together. That may no longer be a problem because I've been aware of it for some years now. Many thanks, Jay. _________________ Barry Wilson
Hodges, SC
Yamaha YTR 8310ZII Bobby Shew Custom
Yamaha YTR 8335 Gen I Xeno (Back up horn)
Yamaha Bobby Shew Flugel
Leblanc Paris C |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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While it's not impossible it's not something I'd advocate for. If you think of the embouchure in terms of strength above all else then perhaps a case could be made for time on a big piece. But in my experience embouchure is much more about refinement, and playing a piece that's otherwise too big is just as likely to lead to chop confusion and hinder growth. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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BobList Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2002 Posts: 1104 Location: Baltimore, MD
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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I double on beginner trombone a few minutes each day, it seems to help my chops a little bit. I would experiment with that, a MUCH larger piece and a whole different horn doesn't mess with me. I don't think I would try a bigger trumpet mouthpiece on the same trumpet ..... too many ways to mess me up. Maybe try Flugelhorn to see how you react to it? _________________ http://www.JMB-MUSIC.COM
http://gregblackmouthpieces.com/personal.htm |
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Lionel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2016 Posts: 783
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: Embouchure Efficiency |
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BarryWilson wrote: | Would there be any advantage to using a larger mouthpiece than normal...during warm up and occasional practice routines...to improve embouchure efficiency? |
Probably not that much. A lot depends upon your level of experience. And I don't buy that warning,
"Watch out! You might ruin your embouchure by playing different mouthpieces".
Silliness. As if this really was a major concern, then how do we explain those trumpet players who double on trombone? As nothing is so far apart as a switch back and forth between these two radically different mouthpieces.
My general rule is that I tend to improve the fastest when I stay with the mouthpiece I'm most familiar with. And this concept applies doubly for range _________________ "Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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Jaw04 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Posts: 900 Location: Bay Area, California
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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I personally have never really done that. I sometimes do the opposite- if I am struggling to find my nice sounding upper register, or feel that I am working too hard, perhaps too much tension in my embouchure, I will put in my super shallow and tight mouthpiece to feel how easy and "not high" the upper register is. The lead piece encourages relaxation and less force. After just a couple minutes on the lead piece I will go back to my deeper and more open mouthpiece and feel much better for it. This is all during practice, not on a gig. |
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soulfire Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 334 Location: NJ
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 5:12 am Post subject: |
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I do this and have done this for years.
There are some people who feel switching mouthpiece rim diameters is a problem for their embouchure, some who don't. Personally, I play on pretty shallow mouthpieces with a rim diameter of about a Bach 5. On occasion, I will practice on the biggest mouthpiece I own (Bach 1B), just for giggles. I'd caution you that switching between radically different sizes can be a problem when going back to a shallower mouthpiece during the same session. And yes, it taxes your muscles much more and you have to be careful not to press. For the record, I also double on trombone (and when I say double, I mean I've been playing both for over a decade). There is absolutely some benefit to buzzing on a radically larger mouthpiece like that as well, since it works different muscles groups.
All in all, rather than buying a different mouthpiece, since the main advantage is muscle building and focusing your airstream, I'd just try to do isometric exercises or free lip buzzing. Couple that with some Clarke studies at sotto voce to tighten your aperture.
In the end, try it and see how it affects you. I mainly do it because I think it's fun (trumpet playing is supposed to be fun... I think I heard that somewhere). If you struggle after a few weeks, at least you know what your problem is and how to fix it lol. _________________ Chris |
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kalijah Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 3260 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:06 am Post subject: |
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I have had some success practicing on slightly smaller diameter equipment for the soft , low, fine control excercises. And then using slightly larger and deeper for the calesthenic work, such as Caruso.
Then perform on the preferred "middle" mouthpiece or even the larger one depending on the performance required.
It gives good results for me. |
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soulfire Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 334 Location: NJ
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 10:35 am Post subject: |
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kalijah wrote: | I have had some success practicing on slightly smaller diameter equipment for the soft , low, fine control excercises. And then using slightly larger and deeper for the calesthenic work, such as Caruso.
Then perform on the preferred "middle" mouthpiece or even the larger one depending on the performance required.
It gives good results for me. |
Right on, same here. I liken it to practicing with a doughnut (for the baseball players here). When you take that weight off, man can you whip your bat around.
I don't do this every day mind you. But it is a fun work out to do on occasion. _________________ Chris |
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kalijah Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 3260 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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Exactly. Just occasionally for me too. |
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Beyond16 Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2020 Posts: 220 Location: Texas Gulf Coast
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2020 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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Well just for grins I tried a tuba mouthpiece on a cornet. Shocker, it doesn't work that well. I couldn't even complete a single octave of a major scale. |
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