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CJceltics33
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Joined: 24 Aug 2017
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Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 7:54 am    Post subject: Comes and goes and comes and goes... Reply with quote

I have awful range, and have ever since my embouchure change two years ago. Range growth since then has been pretty nonexistent. I'll have periods of a few weeks where I can play a high C, then a few months where I can barely play an A, etc etc. In order to combat this, I have to completely tailor my practice around it. I don't play below low C, I play above the staff in every practice session, and I have to do certain Schlossberg exercises. I stop for two days? I lose a third of range. I can't seem to get out of this cycle.




I have very credible teachers and I have tried other mouthpieces.
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mafields627
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What did you change about your embouchure and why did you make the change?
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No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher!
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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Location: Texas, by way of Germany and Hawai'i

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: Comes and goes and comes and goes... Reply with quote

….
CJceltics33 wrote:
I have awful range, and have ever since my embouchure change two years ago.


As the saying goes, "What's wrong with this picture?"

If I were you, I'd get a couple of Skype lessons with Clint "Pop" McLaughlin. He's got a track record with helping out people with chop problems. And a good teacher can see your problem, not something hypothetical with words over the internet.

http://www.bbtrumpet.com/product-category/lessons/web-cam-lesson/
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"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
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Last edited by kehaulani on Tue May 26, 2020 8:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
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Location: Endwell NY USA

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read my list of Embouchure Basic Concepts - here
http://users.hancock.net/jkosta/Embouchure_Basic_Concepts.docx

There is much 'fine tuning' that needs to be done on an individual basis. But if you are deviating too much from these basics, then it's worthwhile to recognize that, and to understand how it affects your playing.

Using those concepts as a starting point for discussion, are there major differences in what you are doing?

Jay
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The 'next note' is the most important one.
Don't take a '20 minute mouthpiece' to a 1 hour session.
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CJceltics33
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My teacher facilitated the change. I previously had far too much bottom lip in the mouthpiece, and the change evened it out. All aspects of my playing have greatly improved (except range) since.
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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Location: Texas, by way of Germany and Hawai'i

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

….
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Charlie Parker
"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
Chet Baker


Last edited by kehaulani on Tue May 26, 2020 9:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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CJceltics33
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Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehualini, I am extremely hesitant to contact Clint McGlaughlin because I don't love his stuff. I have a few of his books, and none have helped. I even bought a didjeridoo to no avail. I don't really want to spend an additional 150 on a lesson with him.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Charlie Parker
"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
Chet Baker
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cheiden
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Joined: 28 Sep 2004
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Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: Comes and goes and comes and goes... Reply with quote

CJceltics33 wrote:
I have awful range, and have ever since my embouchure change two years ago. Range growth since then has been pretty nonexistent. I'll have periods of a few weeks where I can play a high C, then a few months where I can barely play an A, etc etc. In order to combat this, I have to completely tailor my practice around it. I don't play below low C, I play above the staff in every practice session, and I have to do certain Schlossberg exercises. I stop for two days? I lose a third of range. I can't seem to get out of this cycle.

I have very credible teachers and I have tried other mouthpieces.

Maybe it's just me but if I don't play below the staff the upper end of my range goes to hell. If you're eliminating playing low trying to extend you range upward this can be a losing battle.

FWIW I always start of with the iconic Stamp routine descending at a comfortably full volume with the goal of getting the center of my embouchure to be pliable. I'd advise going down to F#.

Then I rest.

Then I use the Stamp scales upward at a somewhat reduced volume specifically to reengage the mechanisms needed for playing higher (lips, pivot, tongue,....). Don't play higher than comfortable. This isn't a range exercise.

Then rest.

Then I recommend a slurred interval exercise to so that you can focus on shifting between intervals with the most efficient use of movement and tension.

Starting this way every time I play I rarely have the kind of inconsistencies you describe. Before I was this methodical I struggled a lot like you describe.
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JVL
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hello CG
contact Bobby Shew
best
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Al Innella
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Joined: 08 Jul 2008
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Location: Levittown NY

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi CJ,

You said you changed your embouchure,but what you described was a change of mouthpiece placement,not embouchure. Types of embouchure can be upstream,down stream,roll in ,roll out,pucker etc.. All can be played on the same mouthpiece placement.Maybe what you need is real embouchure change. Embouchure is a technique,it's the way we use our lips to produce different pitches, high,low and everything in between.
All the long tones,lip slurs scales etc. won't help that much if your embouchure(technique) is faulty. You might have try different teachers until you find one that works for you.

Good luck,

Al
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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Location: Texas, by way of Germany and Hawai'i

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al Innella wrote:
All the long tones,lip slurs scales etc. won't help that much if your embouchure(technique) is faulty.


Amen and a point that can be, and is, overlooked.

I had chop problem in college and had to take a semester off with no playing. Then my teacher started rebuilding my chops, but with the same books and exercises and with the same embouchure. The non-results were predictable.

It wasn't until years later, as a woodwind player, that I discovered the problem. All the right books and exercises in the world don't help if they're founded on a faulty embouchure. You just perfect bad playing.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Charlie Parker
"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
Chet Baker
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coraltrpt
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Joined: 18 Oct 2016
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to get further into the weeds here: but if you would be comfortable posting a video playing some simple scales or exercises (with a good view of your setup) maybe we can get a better picture of what’s happening.

I know Tom Hooten does Skype lessons. He went through a major embouchure change and has a wealth of knowledge on the mechanics. Might be worth it. I took a lesson with him a while back and it was very helpful.
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CJceltics33
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Joined: 24 Aug 2017
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im not opposed to posting a video and if I can figure it out I will!

I am curious if my embouchure is faulty. What are some symptoms? Why do I have good range on occasion if this is the case?
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Lionel
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Joined: 25 Jul 2016
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CJceltics33 wrote:
Im not opposed to posting a video and if I can figure it out I will!

I am curious if my embouchure is faulty. What are some symptoms? Why do I have good range on occasion if this is the case?


C/J,
Long time no see. Sounds like you've become a music major since we last chatted. Congratulations!
Feel free to call anytime dude. You've got my number. Still the same. Best regards!
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"It is surprising how skilled you can become on a very limited (trumpet) embouchure and how many years you can play on that and then how difficult it is to correct that once you find that it is tremendously limited". Bill Moriarty, 2005
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
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Location: Endwell NY USA

PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CJceltics33 wrote:
... I am curious if my embouchure is faulty. What are some symptoms? Why do I have good range on occasion if this is the case?

-------------------------------
Symptoms -
Lip pain or injury, sore or tender teeth.
Contact of lower teeth with upper teeth..
Not being able to blow air through your lips.

Jay
_________________
King Super 20 (S2 1048, HN White)
Bach 7
The 'next note' is the most important one.
Don't take a '20 minute mouthpiece' to a 1 hour session.
Looking out my backdoor
http://www.pronetisp.net/~jkosta/2020_May_9_b_web.jpg
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