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Lionel
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Joined: 25 Jul 2016
Posts: 783
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 Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 12:08 pm Post subject: Teaching embouchure, Stevens system |
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Just yesterday my young student "Stan" started to catch on to the fundamentals of playing the statics on the Stevens system. Previously he'd been closing his teeth too much and I couldn't see it. Neither was he able to visualize the concept. Before yesterday he typically would get a piece of a wispy little high note like an E/High C or High G but was only rarely able to sustain it.
Suspicious that he was closing his teeth? I had him read through the section in the Stevens book. In fact we both read through it together. About how we must fight our body's tendency to return it's joints and limbs etc to "their position of rest". Thus when blowing a wispy little high G my young friend would close his jaw a bit. Why? Because a closed jaw is the body's usual position that it'll return the open jaw to.
This seems to have helped. Because I could sorta see a light go off in his head. He took the horn up to his face after forming the Stevens embouchure as directed and.
Damn! He absolutely NAILS the high G, holds a few seconds and then slides solidly up ANOTHER OCTAVE! Until fading out in an audible squeak around G/Double C.
It's always a beautiful thing to see a student catch on to the fundamentals of the Stevens system. And there's just something so beautiful about the ring in the tone. I haven't had a lot of students willing to learn the thing but those who do and catch on just totally warm my heart.
I directed him to continue practicing these during the week before our next lesson. The purpose of playing the high note squeakers on Stevens-Costello is to make sure that the embouchure is formed correctly. If the kid follows the directions and slides right up close to the double C? He's got it. But when he continues o n up almost to the Triple C? He's REALLY got it happening.
Next week we'll play some more of these tones. Develop control and work them down to High C. Then G/Staff etc. At last my kid is feeling inspired. I pray for my friends. Not to sound religious but I really care for them. I want this young man to succeed. What with all the hardships that his learning disorder has caused him? I want him to learn to be a smokin lead player.
We'll keep y'all posted.
_________________
"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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Tpt_Guy
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Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 1101
Location: Sacramento, Ca
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Nice work!
It's amazing how what seem to be the simplest changes can make some of the most shocking and rapid improvements in our playing.
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-Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
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jicetp
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Joined: 30 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 12:16 am Post subject: |
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Great stoyry.
How would you describe the Stevens statics ? |
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Lionel
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Joined: 25 Jul 2016
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2020 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| jicetp wrote: | Great stoyry.
How would you describe the Stevens statics ? |
These are described in the book as,
"Will at first sound more or less like wind whistling through a small hole or crack".
Chris LaBarbara a consumate pro (and who isn't exactly a fan of the system personally preferring Reinhardt) described them using a sound familiar to Baby Boomers. He said,
"They'll sound like the noise created while the test pattern screen is shown on an old fashioned tv".
And that in my opinion is probably the most accurate reflection. In fact if you can get that sound and it resonates kind of loudly? Then my estimate is that the Roy Stevens system will be easier for you than it is for some others. You should soon be able to "filter out" all those extemporaneous tones and get just one tone to emanate. It'll probably be somewhere in between High G and Double C. And you'll do it
A. On a brand new embouchure that has no experience playing the horn. And.
B. Without any undue arm pressure. Horn resting on palm of hand.
Now while this happens in lots of case? Some folks struggle. I was one of those. And yet I still believe in the system 100%. It's just in my case I needed a mouthpiece with an inner rim dimension that was around 30% larger than standard stock mouthpieces.
Thus my training in power tools and construction became very handy to me personally. And this is all my discovery outside the Stevens system.
My student Stan on the other hand is an excellent fit for the program. The main problem I have with him is his mild learning disability. Incidentally this is part of the reason I'm using the name "Stan" to describe him. So with a mild learning disability I must take care not to throw many directives at him. Its too easy for him to feel overwhelmed. So according to the book he's not sticking his jaw out quite as far as Stevens described. However Stevens also mentioned that some beginners can pull his system off without the near upward horn angle. My feeling is that the young man is certainly getting the proper results. So lets continue down this road. The old saying goes,
"If it ain't broke? Don't fix it". Applying well here. Don't ya think?
However it is still very important to maintain most aspects of the system. We're building an embouchure! Not turning out instantaneous scream players. The system takes a few years . Im only six months into the total conversion to Stevens myself. And yet one of my exercises after getting good and warmed up is playing three octave arpeggios!
Like starting on low A and ascending three octaves up following the chord up to A/High C. Repeat. Then,
Low B flat & ascending three octaves along the chord pattern to B flat above high C. Then Low B natural, Low C. Finishing this series usually around D/DHC to E/DHC.
And all this on an embouchure barely six months old! However I've worked very hard at this. Not only after starting the full conversion over to the Stevens system last November but decades ago. Trying to figure why my chops didn't fit the Stevens system. But finally now they do. I want to keep my eyes open for other young trumpet players like I used to be. If they can work the Stevens as explained in the book all alone? Great but if they need help I can advise them.
And of course if they choose to keep their original embouchure that's cool too. I had to do that too due to existing playing commitments. That and because I had to find that "Missing Link" to the Stevens system. At least as it applies to my chops.
I should note here that there were a number of trumpet players who didn't fit the Stevens system well. I hope to help them find answers. As today I'm the happiest trumpet player on Earth. Can hardly wait to wake up in the am so as to practice and play again.
_________________
"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
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Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| Lionel wrote: | | ... So according to the book he's not sticking his jaw out quite as far as Stevens described. However Stevens also mentioned that some beginners can pull his system off without the near upward horn angle. ... |
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Is the 'upward horn angle' a RESULT of the lower lip and teeth pushing on the bottom of the rim to force the mouthpiece to tilt upward?
Or is it a coordinated movement of changing the jaw position for teeth and lip alignment and also adjusting the tilt of the mouthpiece to have the lips make good contact with the rim?
Any guidelines about how the lip pressure on the rim is distributed between upper and lower?
I'm guessing that the important factor is getting the proper alignment of the teeth and lips, and any tilt of the mouthpiece is a consequence of the alignment. And also having suitable lip pressure so that vibration can be made.
edit: I realize that explaining things in a detailed manner is difficult, and might not seem necessary, but having that level of understanding and being able to 'transfer of knowledge' is critical to teaching.
Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Lionel
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Joined: 25 Jul 2016
Posts: 783
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| JayKosta wrote: | | Lionel wrote: | | ... So according to the book he's not sticking his jaw out quite as far as Stevens described. However Stevens also mentioned that some beginners can pull his system off without the near upward horn angle. ... |
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Is the 'upward horn angle' a RESULT of the lower lip and teeth pushing on the bottom of the rim to force the mouthpiece to tilt upward?
Or is it a coordinated movement of changing the jaw position for teeth and lip alignment and also adjusting the tilt of the mouthpiece to have the lips make good contact with the rim?
Any guidelines about how the lip pressure on the rim is distributed between upper and lower?
I'm guessing that the important factor is getting the proper alignment of the teeth and lips, and any tilt of the mouthpiece is a consequence of the alignment. And also having suitable lip pressure so that vibration can be made.
edit: I realize that explaining things in a detailed manner is difficult, and might not seem necessary, but having that level of understanding and being able to 'transfer of knowledge' is critical to teaching.
Jay |
Good questions all Jay. Sorry if I took a while getting back to you. The upward horn angle USUALLY results from the forward jaw positioning. Darn you're asking some good questions! Yes Ive said that. But the question's good because it isn't necessarily the upward horn angle that Stevens is directing us to to do. Rather it's the jaw being pushed forward to a point at least even with the upper teeth or preferably a bit past the uppers. Which reminds me!
A man I know, one of the finest classical trumpet players I know personally. For years I thought that he was a receded jaw trumpet player because of lower horn angle. As such I always thought it odd how he maintained such a relaxed tone. And at such low volume. He could.play really tricky but SOFT high notes too. Hardly ever making a clam. His musical ability thus didn't match the usual characteristics of his embouchure type. If he was a typical receded jaw or "downstream"? Then he should have been more like the way I was when I pointed my horn downwards and played on flabby chops. In other words hard to play
softly and difficult to switch between large intervals and less range.
However after taking a second look at man I observed that his upper teeth all curved inwards. As such this was what made his horn point low. Not a receded jaw. In fact he was actually just an unusual type of cat whose embouchure really fit the the Stevens system.
And you're ABSOLUTELY RIGHT Jay about finding the correct alignment of jaw, teeth lips and muscles. Stevens hammered this point home. Along with his insistence that his system wasn't an "overnight high note success guarantee". Exercises are only played in the correct chop setting. It is if no value to play the exercises on the wrong setting. Defeats the whole purpose of the system. In fact the only reason that Stevens starts off playing in the extreme upper register is because the ability to play the statics is a test. A check to see if the embouchure put together correctly.
And thus the concern about Stan as he plays the statics. With his moderate learning disability I haven't so far been able to get him to understand the directive to push his jaw out more. However since his statics are coming out so perfectly? I figure that his embouchure is set close enough to the proper target
My goodness I'm running late. Okay. Sill try and finish up later. Hope this helps. Lionel out.
_________________
"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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Shaft
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by Shaft on Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:26 am; edited 3 times in total |
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3298
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| Lionel wrote: |
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The upward horn angle USUALLY results from the forward jaw positioning. Darn you're asking some good questions! Yes Ive said that. But the question's good because it isn't necessarily the upward horn angle that Stevens is directing us to to do. Rather it's the jaw being pushed forward to a point at least even with the upper teeth or preferably a bit past the uppers. ... |
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Lionel, thank you for the information.
I'd be interested in learning more about what have been the 'key nuggets' for you regarding the Stevens technique. Your description above about horn angle is very clear and understandable.
Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Lionel
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2016
Posts: 783
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2020 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| JayKosta wrote: | | Lionel wrote: |
...
The upward horn angle USUALLY results from the forward jaw positioning. Darn you're asking some good questions! Yes Ive said that. But the question's good because it isn't necessarily the upward horn angle that Stevens is directing us to to do. Rather it's the jaw being pushed forward to a point at least even with the upper teeth or preferably a bit past the uppers. ... |
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Lionel, thank you for the information.
I'd be interested in learning more about what have been the 'key nuggets' for you regarding the Stevens technique. Your description above about horn angle is very clear and understandable.
Jay |
The Stevens-Costello system has so much insight and knowledge about how to develop the complete range on the trumpet. This is what impressed me most. And yet at least as the book was written it didn't work well for me. Initially I could never play the statics. About all that I could incorporate was the "two aperture theory". This a concept that works whether one plays forward jaw or not. Or as Bill Moriarty told me,
"The REED! THE REED MUST STAY IN THE INSTRUMENT"! We both agreed that virtually any high note system that doesn't incorporate the two aperture theory is seriously remiss.
So while still on the road in 1976 or so I started making certain that a little extra upper lip flesh descended below my upper teeth. While this didn't give me double Cs it certainly connected my lower tones to the upper register that I did have almost immediately. And I swiftly developed greater endurance and volume power too.
Since no one had helped me like this before I decided that Roy Stevens had much on the ball. At the time most people would have rejected his approach if, like me they couldn't play the statics on conventional mouthpieces.
Instead however I decided that Stevens wasn't wrong. His system was just perhaps incomplete. i considered that there was something different about my own physiology on a level not easily observed. And that this oddity or others like it prevented me from performing the statics and thus continuing on with developing the system.
Specifically the two main nuggets I've found to help.me are,
1. Using a mouthpiece rim with an inner rim dimension 20 to 30% larger than standard stock pieces. Not an increase in cup depth! Just the inner rim size increase. And,
2. I start my statics differently than Stevens recommends. What I'm doing coincidentally is mirrored in Jeff's Balanced Embouchure book under "lip clamp squeaks". For this I'll almost definitely need to make a video.
Hopefully by autumn I'll have some video showing what I'm capable of. It sure would save me tons of writing. So far I've only been able to send sound clips via cellphone.
_________________
"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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Lionel
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Joined: 25 Jul 2016
Posts: 783
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2020 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Another successful teaching lesson.
Stan has progressed nicely on his production of extreme high register tones. The one that all persons new to the Stevens-Costello Triple C method must develop. In the book these initial tones are called "statics" or "cyclonics". However what my student is developing much more resemble real notes as opposed to squeaky little tones. This is a darn good sign my friends! Makes me very happy. Here it is well after 11pm and I'm still feeling a good rush. The kind one gets after a student's technique really starts progressing.
Typically the beginning student to Stevens tends to produce tones sounding like a shortwave radio that hasn't been tuned into a powerful enough station. Or for you old timers, it's the sound that we heard from our television set after a given station went off the air back in the 1970s. Kind of a "HISSS" sound. It's also been described as the sound of "wind whistling through a tree". And sometimes like the sound of a branch on a tree ready to break. Hardly a musical tone at all. Usually we're happy if our student gets a weak volume. As the main goal is to,
A. Put the chops together in such a way as to immediately play close to or above High G. That and in what Stevens called the "Correct" way to guarantee the eventual production of a Triple C.
B. After achieving the correct position one must always sustain this formation even while in the lower register.
Okay I'll elaborate more on this per request. I just want to finish my report on Stan's progress.
When I initially started teaching Stan last summer I wasn't sure if he would be a could candidate for the Stevens System. As it really requires a very analytical mind. And with Stan's learning disability I had some question about going in this direction. Also back last summer my own chops hadn't exactly zeroed into the Stevens System yet either. So initially my goal was merely to "bump" Stan's range from his currently useable High D to a solid high F. Meanwhile keeping him on his existing embouchure. I've done this before with a couple cats and we were all pleased with the results.
Not everybody wants to have a double C. I think that if you ask most otherwise good trumpet players what kind of range they want? I think that most would be satisfied with a High F or G. Such as I enjoyed for decades prior to my tooth loss. And that was my initial plan for Stanley.
So I gave him some hints on how to rig his chops for the notes in between High D and G. Guess what? Failed! And we worked Maggio style pedal tones. All that happened was that his High E flat got clearer but required too much arm pressure. He just wasn't improving to my satisfaction. This was when I started him on Stevens-Costello.
Today he's getting the High G solidly. This after about one month since I first introduced him to the system. We're not trying to get them loudly but he's certainly getting them at a forte loudness. This is a very good sign. It means that he'll be from among that fortunate few who can convert quickly to Stevens-Costello. Whereas I'm personally one of the slower developers. My volume is really getting better but it takes me longer to get all of my coordinates precise and well managed.
And during the course of this week he's going to both keep sustaining that High G AND working it down to high C. I've not pushed him to play with the horn resting only on his palm much. This because with the learning disability I don't want to throw too much at him right now
Also he's EASILY playing the High G without undue arm pressure. You oughta hear his Double C !!!? So as such I'm forgoing the book's usual insistence upon playing with near zero arm pressure. I too learned what I know about the Stevens-Costello system without the initial constant use of the palm method. The more I personally develop the more I like to use it. However Stan isn't using much pressure at all in his extreme upper register anyway. So at least for now I'm not insisting upon him doing it.
Again, it was a very fruitful lesson. The more I teach and observe the more that I learn.
_________________
"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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