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Why don't we play the first E with the 3rd valve as standard


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chrisroyal
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Joined: 08 Jun 2015
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Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know this is an older thread.

In my case, many things involving the pitch are dependent on trumpet brand and alignment, mouthpiece gap, and how the player uses air/ tongue/ lip pressure and intrusion.

On my setup, once I discovered that middle C (third space) rides high, I could make better use of 3rd valve A and E in all registers.
Getting that C down in pitch is also a gateway for better upper register playing. By keeping the pitch down at that point (keeping the tension down) even as ascending, all is easier because one is not fighting the instrument as much.

Also, in the same manner, playing chromatically down from middle C very slowly in the center of each note should reveal the relative distance between the 8 different “bugles” we use. Starting from a more centered middle C, the 5th bugle (A using 3th valve) is more in tune relatively. The 4th bugle (A using 1-2) IS indeed sharp relative to the primary bugle (C).


This tuning phenomenal is constant with many brands and keys of modern valved trumpets (piston and rotary) and flugels. I understand that part of the reason is manufacturers make the 1st valve slide little shorter to make 4th line D a little less flat. Of course the bugle is Bb; so the series is a little off relative to C (except for the D)! 5th line F and above is now sharp. It cascades for the 1-2 combination. There is also a very large distance between middle C and middle B, because C has a larger slot. When playing with other instruments (not other trumpets) we lip notes up and down a lot without realizing it. The 8 bugles are not really 1/2 step apart.

But the 3rd valve A series is usually the reality check. Don’t lip it up, just blow right through. It has a unique timbre when the long 3rd valve is engaged all alone.

The A-overtone series on 3rd valve deserves more lip slur practice. The tone is different from the A 1-2 series, probably because 1-2 is a little sharp and we tend to lip it down unconsciously. But as we ascend, that sharp tendency is revealed a little on C# to a lot on high A and above. That habitual overshoot from the open and reinforced by using 1-2 makes other higher notes harder to slot, even when changing valves, because the lips don’t suddenly stop overshooting from note to note.

In the end, these issues of related bugle tuning are made more clear by valve alignment, but then adjusted for the player by dealing with the mouthpiece gap to put the bugles in better relative alignment.


Last edited by chrisroyal on Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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chrisroyal
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Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Last edited by chrisroyal on Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mario Mojica
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Joined: 19 Jun 2021
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that it is worth experimenting and alternating between the two fingerings for the notes because of the timbre changes. Much like how open C in the staff is often fingered 2 and 3 on C trumpet because it lowers the pitch.
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Avan
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:39 pm    Post subject: 3rd valve Reply with quote

I've been using the 3rd valve on my 1948 Selmer Grand Prix for the A above the staff for a long time, it made easier to play the note A and in tune for me anyway. I still attempt to play it with 1 and 2 but it just does not ring nicely for me.


I glad for all the responses to the question as I have learned something more today about trumpets.

Best Regards
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LaTrompeta
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I took lessons from Bill Pfund, I asked him this same question. He told me that the timbre with just 3 was different from the other combinations.
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PMonteiro
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard that when sounding Taps in the key of G, doing it on 3 is the way to go
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picctpt33
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The color of 1-2 on the Bb for top space E is off. I wish it weren’t because that note tends to be so darn flat!
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