Intentional valve mis-alignment for Benge trumpets

[Andy Cooper]

Intentional valve mis-alignment for Benge trumpets

My favorite horn is a 1921 Conn 80A style cornet that I had totally overhauled about 35 years ago. It played well after the valve job by Anderson. Still I took a chance and sent it to Don Novy for his patented valve alignment. This involved machining the piston barrels and stems to permanently mis-align the valves in a specific way. (To quote one of my friends “why in the bleep would you want to mis-align your valves?”).

The end result was a wonderfully sweet playing instrument that was liked by everyone who tried it. At the same time, I had a time capsule 1953 Conn Vic that I sent to Roy Lawler to align. It too turned out to be a fine playing instrument, but they were different. The Novy alignment resulted in a “Benge-ish” feel while the Lawler alignment gave a more structured “Bach-ish” feel.

I ended up keeping the cornet with the Novy alignment – it’s still on the stand next to my trumpet du jour.

My trumpet du jour (for three years) is a UMI 7X .470 Benge (CG bell, CG leadpipe) that was graciously gifted to me by another player. (I think he got sick of me showing up with ShopGoodwill.com $40 horns.) The Benge took some tinkering (most UMI products of the time were sort of trumpet kits – some assembly required). When I finished with it – it played like a true Benge – the sort of “welcome home honey” feel. It also had the same Benge intonation problems that required you to treat it like a C trumpet. Then I remembered conversations that I had with Novy in the 90’s when he mentioned that he developed his process after noticing that his Benge trumpet played better before standard valve alignments than after.

I decided to see if the Novy mis-alignment would help. (I used alignment shims instead of machining the parts in case I did not like the results.) After doing the process and returning to the original alignment a half dozen times, I’m convinced that it makes D, Eb, and E in the staff easier to play in tune without alternate fingerings and with a more resonate sound. All the notes seem more even and connected – yet the trumpet has not lost its Benge “vibe”.

I have since done this with other trumpets and cornets but find that I have better results with large bore horns. I speculated that this process would be more useful with older technology instruments rather with new instruments with better quality control.

Should you decide to experiment with this, be prepared for a fair amount of exasperation. For the Novy process to work, the trumpet needs to be in excellent alignment to start with. Good measured or visual alignment (with a camera) is not enough. The alignment then needs to be adjusted with shims so that all combinations have a “resonate” sound.

Turns out you need to first follow the process outlined by Bob Reeves in his 70’s valve alignment patent in tuning the “bugles” – then apply the calculated Novy adjustments.

Novy mentioned that either calculated vertical mis-alignment or rotational mis-alignment would work. If the Powell/Blackburn valve guides were available for all instruments it would make the entire process a lot easier.

For your reading enjoyment.


REEVES Patent
https://www.google.com/patents/US3990342


Don Novy Patent
https://patents.google.com/patent/US3973464?oq=Donald+Novy++patent


Powell Blackburn valve guide for rotational alignment
https://www.google.com/patents/US7667117

[Ronnman]

Interesting. Did you misalign all the valves a similar amount or did you misalign only certain valves? How much misalignment do you think your horn ended up with on each valve?
Ron
_________________
Martin Committee #2 1954
Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014

[Andy Cooper]

As per the formula in the patent the average "offset" for the 3rd valve needs to be .07155 * the valve bore. For a trumpet with a .470 bore, the average "offset" for the 3rd valve is (.470*.07155) = .0336
(I used an average offset - the average of the top and bottom limits that Novy believed to be appropriate.)

3rd 0.0336
2nd 0.0168
1st 0.0084

This gives you a 4-2-1 ratio . You could do this 2 ways. If you add .0336 to the existing bottom stem pads, you would subtract .0336 from the top finger button pads. You can do it the other way around if it makes the padding easier.

You find yourself in desperation looking at mylar candy bar wrappers for shim material.

I found it necessary to set up an Excel spreadsheet.

[yourbrass]

Very interesting. So part of the bore is blocked to (maybe) create resistance and alter note placements. Haven't tried this, but I can understand why it would work better on large bore horns.
_________________
"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/

[Andy Cooper]

[Ronnman]

[Andy Cooper]

[JayKosta]

[Andy Cooper]

[kehaulani]

[Andy Cooper]

[Johnny-Highnote]

Just my 5 Pennys...
A PVA will make (maybe...) sense if the horn feels somewhat stuffy or weird
If the horn still is weird-it's not the horn for You.Blueprinting and other things may turn out good,but maybe it will be still not the horn for You...
It's only a waste of time,nerves and money()
For me the "not for You horn" is a Bach37 with 25 pipe.
On the other hand,if a horn is way too open (a Schilke X4 or something comes in mind-never tried a wild thing,but this one seems to be wide open too)
And sucks the air out of Your lungs-then a Valve misalignment may make perfect results.
I tried this with a Frankenhorn that feels way to open (38b bell and leadpipe
from a rotten Connstellation mixed with a Bauerfeind valve section)
the horn sounds great and is fun to play-but it really sucks You out like Dracula
First thing i did was getting mpc's with smaller throats/backbores,helps a lot....but a misaligbnemt of ca. 1mm really helped making that beast playable (and shorter stroke... )
So it's worth a try-and can be rebuilt easily.
_________________
Greatings from Germany
Dennis


38b "Frankenconn" with Bauerfeind Valve block/ Yamaha 6345G /Yamaha 631/Courtois 154G / Curry+Klier 1,5 mpc`s

[Andy Cooper]

[yourbrass]

[Andy Cooper]