Water key tension has major affect on resistance of blow!!

TheAidanAU · Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:21 pm Post subject:

Is anyone able to send a video demonstrating this? I would like to see how this is done properly, I would not want to damage my horn.

RETrumpet · Veteran Member Joined: 26 Jan 2021 Posts: 210

Rwwilson · Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:45 pm Post subject:

My Olds Recording trumpet and cornet have trombone style water keys so the pivot rods run along the tubing rather than across. How should I adjust these. Oh wait, the pivots aren’t threaded so I guess I’m out of luck and will just have to live with how they play.

Rwwilson · Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:49 pm Post subject:

My Olds Recording trumpet and cornet have trombone style water keys so the pivot rods run along the tubing rather than across. How should I adjust these. Oh wait, the pivots aren’t threaded so I guess I’m out of luck and will just have to live with how they play.

Divitt Trumpets · Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:33 pm Post subject:

Spring tension is the issue. I would worry far less about the screw, unless it was really cranked in there.
The unthreaded screws are often bent, so maybe straightening might help.
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JayKosta · Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:56 am Post subject:

gregplo · Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:37 am Post subject:

I've been reading this thread with interest, and decided it was time to put this to the test with a horn I've had in my closet for a while that plays nicely, but for me, has always felt like there was too much resistance. It is a Galileo Dolce Bel Canto model trumpet that I bought a few years back...shortly after they came on the market.

I pulled it out of its case and played it for a bit, just to get a feel for it again. The water key on the main tuning slide has always felt a bit stiff (too tight), but I never tried adjusting it. I backed the threaded bolt (it has a hex head rather than being a slotted screw or thumb screw head) out about a 1/4 turn and played it some more. It plays like a completely different trumpet now. It resonates better, which affects the sound in a positive manner (more overtones...not dark, but a fuller, rounder tone), and I don't feel like I have to over blow to get the sound I'm looking for. I took it to a rehearsal last night, and can't believe how much better it plays.

I cannot speak for how other horns will react to this adjustment, but for this specific horn, it made an enormous difference.
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dr_trumpet · Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:13 am Post subject:

Three separate things, actually:

1. Strength of the spring can cause excess tension and stress where the spring mount attaches to the slide. Monette uses an Amado-style key just for this reason. (The softness of the metal that Monette preferred at one point in time would actually cause a bend and eventually a potential tear in the brass. The key also dented the slide easily of the top of the key was pushed too hard into the brass.)

2. Excess tightening of the screw (a mechanical fastener) can cause tension in the entire key mechanism, and reduce resonance. When the slightest amount of tension is removed, the instrument plays entirely differently. This also can happen with the bottom valve caps. hence the use of o-rings to keep the caps from rattling when slightly loosened. There is a "formula" to that as well, and these things need to be monitored for loosening due to the vibration during playing.

3. Cork seal can affect how well the key is sealed. If it is worn or fits poorly, the seal is not complete, which can change the response and playing of a trumpet. Interestingly, I was shown a trick on "La Mer" where the cornet goes up to a high Ab-Bb slur at a very soft dynamic, and the trick was to open the water key when on the high Ab, and the instrument slurs right up to the high Bb. I learned this from my teacher, who learned it from Harry Glantz.

All my best,

AL
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dershem · Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:30 pm Post subject:

I had Saturn water keys put on my primary horns, and it feels like there's nothing there at all.
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deleted_user_687c31b · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

improver · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 1455

I just got the tensions right on my Bach 37s and have no in tension to move them. There is definitely a sweet spot with these water key springs and my recommendation is it's just loosened little from fully tightened. I just wonder over the years if the new Bachs all got tightened the same or different. My guess is that could have determined playability out of the factory. Maybe the one cat who worked at the factory Can chime in.