Water/Valve Oil Accumulating in Valve Bottom Caps

[Phoenix864]

Hi all,

For the past few months, I have been noticing a combination of water and valve oil accumulating in the bottom caps on my horn's valve casing. I originally thought this was occurring due to using too much valve oil, so I scaled back from four drops per valve to two. However, I still have been noticing significant accumulation in the bottom caps. Valve compression is excellent, so I'm sure it doesn't have anything to do with loose valves. I also empty the 2nd and 3rd valve slides every day to minimize water buildup in the horn.

One thing I did notice is that when depressed, the valve protrudes slightly into the bottom section of the valve casing, which is of slightly larger diameter than the portion where the valve sits when unpressed. I'm not sure if this is the cause of the buildup, but though it might be worth mentioning.

This the bottom section of the casing (with the slightly increased diameter):



When depressed, the valve continues into this section (same for all valves):



I would much appreciate any suggestions or recommendations on how to solve this - the valve oil in the buildup leaks into the case and leaves residue on the bottom of the valve casing.

[jondrowjf@gmail.com]

Have you changed your valve oil recently? Are applying the valve oil from the top or bottom of the valves. Do you keep your trumpet in a closed case?
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[Phoenix864]

[delano]

For me it’s a sign of worn valves. Even if you experience a good compression.

[Crazy Finn]

Could have to do with humidity and warmer weather.
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[Phoenix864]

[delano]

But why in the bottom caps?

[mdarnton]

Gravity?

[zaferis]

Yes, because of gravity that's where some excess oil or water will end up. I don't think it's a sign of a problem, other than maybe, for some reason that liquid is not dripping out of the vent holes.

The valve extending into the area below the friction surface (interior casing) - could be nothing, could be that the downstoke bumper is too thin, or non-OEM finger buttons/top caps put on, allowing the valve to travel a bit too far.

Take the bottome caps off, wipe them out, replace... no problem
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[Trumpetown]

I'm new to trumpets, but is it possible that the valve oil and slide grease you're using is just a bad combination?

I remember seeing in a YouTube video that sometimes the valve oil and slide grease just don't jive with each other.

In the same video, he mentioned that sometimes a players particular saliva doesn't jive with the oil or grease either.

I'd be tempted to clean the entire horn and switch slide grease.

Just my .02 cents.
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Conn SS1

[Phoenix864]

Thanks all for the suggestions.

[Ronnman]

Phoenix864 - I have that buildup when playing any of my horns. I live in South Louisiana, so humidity is a constant here and probably contributes to this condition. It’s is strange how the oil clings to the bottom of the valves. I would think with fast valve action, most of the oil/water would be removed by gravity. Like stated, when done playing, take a few minutes to remove the valves, wipe them off with a lint free rag or wipe. Then oil liberally. I also remove the bottom caps and wipe them as well. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Ron
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[Beyond16]

I think it's bilge water. Selmer Paris bottom caps have no corners and are easy to clean. The downside is that bilge water drips immediately onto your leg rather building up in the cap.

[delano]

[Bflatman]

I would point my finger at wide tolerance in the valve to casing gap coupled with using a pure oil with low cling, coupled with being a thinned oil due to higher ambient temperatures.

Valves that drink oil are often a combination of wide tolerances and thin oil.

Not all oils are the same, oils are complex they are viscous and they also cling to surfaces a thin oil with low cling will drop down the casing swiftly and in hot temperatures the oil is thinner and this happens more quickly.

I would suggest that maybe the buildup in the bottom cap is noticeable due to pointing the instrument down during play so it cannot run out of the hole.

If the horn plays well I would ignore this

[yourbrass]

Some new valves are fit loosely enough where you'll get water/oil dripping out the bottom. In addition to emptying the keys I give my horn a downward shake to get excess water out of the casings. Faster when you're in practice/performance mode.
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[Tony Scodwell]

My wife got very good at removing stains on my white shirts from whatever came out the bottom caps knowing I played new horns. A fellow I knew here in Las Vegas invented the "Grime Gutter", a polyethylene cover that had a felt inside fitting over all three valve bottom caps. Bach offered that as an accessory for many years selling a bunch to marching bands keeping the costly uniforms free of residue. My experience with them was a slowing down of the valve action so I stopped using them.

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com

[GrowlerBox]

[Croquethed]