New trumpet to replace my Martin.

somedaylikechet · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 261

I have a 1941 Martin Standard. And I really love the sound of it. I mostly play with a piano player friend and sometimes other people in a small jazz combo setting.
The problem with my horn is the valves. I got them "fixed", they're much better than before, but still leaking, so I need insane amounts of oil, otherwise the sound gets fuzzy from the leaking air.
Now I'm thinking that maybe it's time for another horn, a new one with a similar sound and the same open feel. I also have a Bach Strad, but it sounds and feels less interesting than the old Martin, so I don't want to go back to that.
I'm not a super player, don't have much of a range, but I'm having lots of fun playing. My musical idol is more Chet Baker and less Maynard, if you know what I mean.
I need a horn that responds well and where I don't have to blow like a madman. And one with valves that don't ask for oil twice an hour. Any ideas, which one would be a worthy successor to my Martin?

HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581

What's your budget?
_________________
HERMOKIWI

somedaylikechet · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 261

yourbrass · Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:31 pm Post subject:

How were your valves "fixed?" If they weren't refitted, then you have an unrealized potential.

Refitting valves will transform the horn.

It's expensive, but much less than finding and purchasing another horn.

And you can always buy another horn anyway.
_________________
"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/

somedaylikechet · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 261

Goby · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 650

If you're looking for something similar to your Martin, I'd recommend the Schilke HC1 or HC2. The Adams A9 is also based on a Martin Committee. You could always go a vintage Martin Committee trumpet or cornet, but you'd have to make sure it's in good shape.

I've heard that the Martin Indiana had the same bell as a committee, so you could probably pick one of those up if you wanted to try something on the less-expensive side.

Crazy Finn · Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:50 pm Post subject:

HERMOKIWI · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2581

How a horn plays is very personal. It depends on many factors, not the least of which includes the mouthpiece. So, predicting how you'll feel a particular horn plays for you is a guessing game for us.

Similarly, how a horn sounds is very personal. By and large the predominant sound you produce on any horn is your own sound. Wynton sounds like Wynton on his Monette but Wynton also sounded like Wynton on his Bach, too, and Chet sounded like Chet on everything he played as well.

Based on your description of what you do, how you play and the sound you like my suggestion is that you look for a Martin Committee in good condition or, if you want a new horn, go for an Adams A9. I also suggest that you get a flugelhorn, I think you'd have a lot of fun playing one in the situations you describe. The Adams F1 is an excellent flugelhorn but there are many excellent flugelhorns available so there are many to choose from.

If you're interested in a Martin Committee be advised that the most collectible horns are serial number 200,000 and lower. I suggest that you stay in that range. They aren't hard to find.
_________________
HERMOKIWI

Shawnino · Veteran Member Joined: 27 Jun 2020 Posts: 255

As mentioned, several makers are re-imagining the Committee.

I know a guy who is very happy with Carol's re-imagination. Their numbering is funky but it's a 7660 with a red brass bell.

If you can try one, it should be a bit below US $2K. Thomann has the gold brass version in stock for $1569, so it rates to be a bit more than that.

Speed · Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:54 am Post subject:

It sounds like your valve job left something to be desired.

I sent my Committee to Steve Winans at Doctor Valve for a complete valve job, as well has some other repairs. I have yet to play another trumpet with valves so good.

All valve jobs are not created equal. Before spending a few thousand dollars on a new horn, you might want to consider spending a few hundred dollars with Doctor Valve (or one of a handful of other shops around the country with similarly good reputations).

Take care,
Marc Speed

deleted_user_687c31b · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

You've probably tried this already, but maybe you could try a different (thicker?) valve oil and see if that reduces the problem?

As for suggestions for different horns, how about a different Martin Standard? Or maybe an Olds Recording, or some other vintage horn with a similar feel and character, but less problematic valves?

delano · Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:50 am Post subject:

It's a little bit a weird story. I own two horns with bad valves. One is a Henri Selmer, the valves are quite worn, you can really move them sideways. The first thing that happens with valves like that is that they are not functioning well, they keep hanging, (solved that with Binak and then only a little bit once every 6 months).
But the horn plays great, though the slotting is a bit loose (fixed that with adding some weight) and the low register below A or so is more difficult, but the sound is surely not fuzzy, the horn has an excellent sound, it's even called by someone a Committee killer!
Same with an old Van Engelen cornet, very loose valves but good playing and good sound.
So I don't understand your fuzzy sound by air leaks and all the oiling.
And I am VERY curious what they have done to your valves, plating and refitting is not a regular job for an instrument repair, it's quite specialised.
My advice: go with your Martin to a wellknown repair shop and have the horn examined.

plankowner110 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3620

somedaylikechet,

Try using Hetman Classic piston oil on your Martin. It is specifically formulated for use on older classic trumpets with worn pistons.

I agree with the suggestion above that you spend a few hundred dollars to have the valves plated and fitted correctly by someone that knows what they are doing. You will never be satisfied with any other trumpet than your Martin.
_________________
C. G. Conn 60B Super Connstellation
Getzen 800S Eterna cornet
Bach 5C (Jens Lindemann is right)
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26763

Ed Kennedy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187

You need a proper valve job: Dr. Valve, Osmun, Ken Larson, Rich Ita (BIW), Charly Melk http://charliesbrassworks.com/ .

these guys will do it right and your valves will be BETTER than new.

PS If you want a new horn and want something special for about $4K, I suggest the Edwards X13. Check it out

JayKosta · Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:25 am Post subject:

I would first try heavier valve oil - perhaps the Hetman if it is easily available.

An alternative would be using drug store Mineral Oil, with just a drop or two of petroleum (e.g. Al Cass) valve oil to give acceptable valve action. Straight Mineral Oil can also be used on the valve slides. Use a Q-tip to apply the MO.

I use straight Mineral Oil on the valves of an old 'leaky valve' euphonium, and have good results. I use the MO along with a few drops of Al Cass on my trumpet valves - it works fine for me.
I like the MO (and Al Cass) because they have little smell, and have no coloring.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

Jon Arnold · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 2025

Try an Adams A9.

Manuel de los Campos

OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2440

agroovin48 · Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:39 pm Post subject:

Everybody is trying to save you money when you said that you could spend $5000.00 on a new horn. Wow man, buy a new horn and feel like a king when you take that new axe and make some wonderful sounds with it! Life is too short, enjoy it while you can.
_________________
agroovin48

Alan Cahill

1933 Conn Victor 80A Cornet
King Legend 2070
Adams A1V2

lipshurt · Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:53 pm Post subject:

He’s got a martin standard, not a martin committee. Totally different horn.

I would say that pretty much any trumpet will get you what you want. Go to some stores and play some horns. Or, if possible with a store that has a trial policy, order some and return them which will cost you a restocking fee and shipping. But at least you can play the horns over several days to compare.

Something like a student line Yamaha or getzen, or used Benge, etc there is a ton out there. On eBay, you can just put it back on eBay, and maybe even make a bit. Go in with no preconceived notions. Don’t rule out Bach either by the way. Chet did some his best recordings on a Bach.
_________________
Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt