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Jon_Manness
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Joined: 08 Jul 2018
Posts: 26
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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 Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:20 pm Post subject: BE saving my chops during COVID-19 |
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Can't say I've been playing a ton due to COVID, but I feel pretty good with minimum maintenance doing BE exercises. For me, emphasizing the RI-side really keeps my naturally RO chops in check.
How is everyone else doing, chop-wise?
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Jon Manness
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Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:44 pm Post subject: Re: BE saving my chops during COVID-19 |
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| Jon_Manness wrote: | Can't say I've been playing a ton due to COVID, but I feel pretty good with minimum maintenance doing BE exercises. For me, emphasizing the RI-side really keeps my naturally RO chops in check.
How is everyone else doing, chop-wise? |
I´ve posted elsewhere regarding "how to survive" - what kind of stuff I do - and here I will definitively side with you - the RI:s are simply fantastic when it comes to minimum maintenance; extremely lot of bangs for the buck. I´ve tried to spread this message, feeling like the shouting man in the desert. Mysterious, not to say eerie that so few realize the value. Instead buzzing in what not....
I always couple RO:s with the RI:s - a very special feeling when soft relaxed lips then are the basis for the RI:s!
What could be said here is that my lips seem to demand a good deal of warm up exercices prior to the BE - guess this is very personal and that everyone will have to find a regimen that fits. The Laurie Frink Integrated Warm Up fills that function for me.
Another discovery is that you could customize say Colin flexibilities by turning them upside down, sort of, begin 123 end 0 - thus making them progressive.
By the way - different schools here; prior to the BE I always played the way most books recommend (or provide), beginning 0 ending 123. I´ve found Jeff´s ideas much more natural - slowly expanding upwards. Makes sense!
Then you write "my naturally RO chops..." please elaborate!!
_________________
Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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Jon_Manness
Regular Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2018
Posts: 26
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:14 am Post subject: Re: BE saving my chops during COVID-19 |
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What I mean by "naturally RO" is that I don't naturally roll-in my chops when I play. Pedals come easily, but lip trills were very hard before incorporating a RI setting. Normally RI #3 with some lip-trilling will be all I need to feel ready to play. If my sound isn't there, I might do some pedals or TOL exercises, but usually it's there.
| Seymor B Fudd wrote: | | Jon_Manness wrote: | Can't say I've been playing a ton due to COVID, but I feel pretty good with minimum maintenance doing BE exercises. For me, emphasizing the RI-side really keeps my naturally RO chops in check.
How is everyone else doing, chop-wise? |
I´ve posted elsewhere regarding "how to survive" - what kind of stuff I do - and here I will definitively side with you - the RI:s are simply fantastic when it comes to minimum maintenance; extremely lot of bangs for the buck. I´ve tried to spread this message, feeling like the shouting man in the desert. Mysterious, not to say eerie that so few realize the value. Instead buzzing in what not....
I always couple RO:s with the RI:s - a very special feeling when soft relaxed lips then are the basis for the RI:s!
What could be said here is that my lips seem to demand a good deal of warm up exercices prior to the BE - guess this is very personal and that everyone will have to find a regimen that fits. The Laurie Frink Integrated Warm Up fills that function for me.
Another discovery is that you could customize say Colin flexibilities by turning them upside down, sort of, begin 123 end 0 - thus making them progressive.
By the way - different schools here; prior to the BE I always played the way most books recommend (or provide), beginning 0 ending 123. I´ve found Jeff´s ideas much more natural - slowly expanding upwards. Makes sense!
Then you write "my naturally RO chops..." please elaborate!! |
_________________
Jon Manness
Stomvi VR-II Big Bell
Stomvi Master
Stomvi Elite Copper Flugel
'37 Conn 80a Cornet
'42 Conn 22b Trumpet
Stomvi-USA Mouthpieces |
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steve0930
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Joined: 07 May 2018
Posts: 191
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:27 am Post subject: |
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Hello BE Explorers
roll in roll out.. roll all about..!
I was not happy with my ALS 7 second to last.. B above the staff not sounding strident at all like the cd.
So my solution.. go to the normal RO setting.. do a few ROs THEN carry on the exercise but this time turn the TopLip into a roll in setting..and carry on doing your best shots at ROs. Noise sounds dreadful.. but that for me is good news.. spells lips out the comfort zone..(you can then play around with the top lip in the RO exercise.. rolling it out and then back in..) I then went back to ALS 7 and that B bangs itself out! Of course this is NOT part of the BE blueprint but if it helps anybody get closer to the cd...
how to survive covid energy
I liked this post from Ko - made me stop thinking about "tired lips"
| Quote: | | Now another thing he (Ko's teacher) told me frequently, was that ideally, you wouldn't play on strength, power, but you would learn how to play on energy. But this would only happen if everything with the lips would fall into place. He told me that in the orchestra they sometimes had really heavy duty stuff to play and the rehearsals were very demanding for the brass section. Everyone would start out fresh and be crushed by the end. What struck him was that for him it worked exactly the other way around. By the time they had ended the rehearsal, he would be up for another round! He said that the other players were trying to save their strength, but he on the contrary made sure he lost his 'strength' as soon as possible, because he knew that then his lips would become much more free to move on their own and he would be able to play anything he liked, using just 'energy' to move his lips around. KO |
cheers for now Steve in Helsinki |
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Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| steve0930 wrote: | Hello BE Explorers
roll in roll out.. roll all about..!
I was not happy with my ALS 7 second to last.. B above the staff not sounding strident at all like the cd.
So my solution.. go to the normal RO setting.. do a few ROs THEN carry on the exercise but this time turn the TopLip into a roll in setting..and carry on doing your best shots at ROs. Noise sounds dreadful.. but that for me is good news.. spells lips out the comfort zone..(you can then play around with the top lip in the RO exercise.. rolling it out and then back in..) I then went back to ALS 7 and that B bangs itself out! Of course this is NOT part of the BE blueprint but if it helps anybody get closer to the cd...
how to survive covid energy
I liked this post from Ko - made me stop thinking about "tired lips"
| Quote: | | Now another thing he (Ko's teacher) told me frequently, was that ideally, you wouldn't play on strength, power, but you would learn how to play on energy. But this would only happen if everything with the lips would fall into place. He told me that in the orchestra they sometimes had really heavy duty stuff to play and the rehearsals were very demanding for the brass section. Everyone would start out fresh and be crushed by the end. What struck him was that for him it worked exactly the other way around. By the time they had ended the rehearsal, he would be up for another round! He said that the other players were trying to save their strength, but he on the contrary made sure he lost his 'strength' as soon as possible, because he knew that then his lips would become much more free to move on their own and he would be able to play anything he liked, using just 'energy' to move his lips around. KO |
cheers for now Steve in Helsinki |
BTW I can tell the same story ........even if my chops can have a short "down period" - at the end of the gig/rehearsal/ they feel even better!!!
Never thought that this would be possible. But you gotta practice diligently!
John M! I understand - I seem to start rolling in around G top of staff, goes rather smoothly these days.
_________________
Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Schilke 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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Lionel
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2016
Posts: 783
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:17 am Post subject: Re: BE saving my chops during COVID-19 |
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| Jon_Manness wrote: | Can't say I've been playing a ton due to COVID, but I feel pretty good with minimum maintenance doing BE exercises. For me, emphasizing the RI-side really keeps my naturally RO chops in check.
How is everyone else doing, chop-wise? |
This is a good generic type post for me to mention that I really like what the work that Jeff Smiley has done over the years. I kinda felt it necessary because of a post I recently put upon HR Development. The one where I mentioned some less than flattering thoughts about brass playing systems in general. Other than the one that I use which for the sake of decorum will remain unstated. In that post I had pretty much knocked most other systems. And I still stand by that with one exception.
That's shortly before it hit me that I do like B/E. It's not something zi use 100% of the time but this is true of lots of things that are still very worthwhile. The fact remains that the Roll-In & Roll-Out are two totally basic elements of sound and range production on a brass instrument. Although neither is emphasized much outside of B/E. And for that reason alone Jeff's system is to be admired.
I think that when we look at major discoveries throughout history the most significant of these often fall into the category of "simple genius". When I first learn of some truly successful invention or maybe a successful product that sells millions I usually say to myself,
"Hey now why didn't I think of that".
That's what I mean when using the word "simple". The discovery seems simple it's true but only after the fact. Ie after someone uncovered it. Or perhaps after someone begins the proper emphasis of the concept. Steve Jobs didn't invent the computer mouse. In fact Xerox did. However Xerox only invented it for the purpose if making it easier for the public to use their copying machines. They couldn't understand the over all significance to the industry that they had unleashed. Nor the magnificent power that their funny little contraption actually had. Whereas Jobs knew of it's potential value. He told Xerox, "You're standing upon a gold mine. A trillion dollar product". Yet they didn't know it!
So it is with B/E. The system postulates that the trumpet player is likely to go one direction or another. To roll-in or roll- out. And while the system I use generally uses only a roll in? I've been around long enough to realize that not all trumpet players are prone to accept the principles I like. For them they'll always have B/E's system.
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"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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trumpetteacher1
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Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 3404
Location: Garland, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:37 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the good words, Lionel. Much appreciated.
Regarding the extreme range of motion exercises (RI and RO), there are three different camps. Some players find that RI exercises unlock a potential that was previously unsuspected. For others, it is the RO exercises. But for most players, the effect of doing both exercises in combination is necessary to find higher levels of balance.
Further, a player in this camp cannot predict with certainty exactly how the combination will yield higher balance. Each player has to go down the path a bit, and experience the exercises. There are guidelines in the book which keep the player moving "more or less in the right direction." They include the other (core) exercises in the book, which play a major role in establishing stability during critical development stages.
Always looking to clarify. 
Jeff |
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Lionel
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2016
Posts: 783
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| trumpetteacher1 wrote: | Thanks for the good words, Lionel. Much appreciated.
Regarding the extreme range of motion exercises (RI and RO), there are three different camps. Some players find that RI exercises unlock a potential that was previously unsuspected. For others, it is the RO exercises. But for most players, the effect of doing both exercises in combination is necessary to find higher levels of balance.
Further, a player in this camp cannot predict with certainty exactly how the combination will yield higher balance. Each player has to go down the path a bit, and experience the exercises. There are guidelines in the book which keep the player moving "more or less in the right direction." They include the other (core) exercises in the book, which play a major role in establishing stability during critical development stages.
Always looking to clarify.
Jeff |
Let me tell ya Jeff... I'm finally getting it. Granted that I've said that before. And yet the reason for my impass was that while I certainly did need a mouthpiece with an inner rim dimension significantly wider than standard stock pieces? Unfortunately I had previously always made them myself out of non metal surfaces. Wasn't until I bought some real equipment and made the rim from solid brass that I found myself on the right track. That was only last November. Had I bought the equipment fifteen years ago? I'd be playing fifteen years practice better than I am today. No regrets but it was a mistake.
I should have learned quicke
There's just something about a non metal mouthpiece rim that makes articulation exceedingly difficult for mel. Solved! I'm so incredibly glad to have closed that chapter. As to why I need an inner rim so large? Well shucks I've probably gone off topic here enough. But I have my theories.
At any rate my range is connected now. All four octaves of it and climbing almost daily too. Its still a "R-I" setting but not nearly so much. Much of the time my lips remain close to their natural position.. Also I no longer have that frustrating cut-off point at High G. And am finally getting some real volume on that G and even up to DHC. It's been a long, hard road but I'm not bitter. As soon as possible am going to post videos of my stuff.
At one time I had a dream of becoming a great trumpet player. Back when I was a boy. This however was putting the cart before the horse. At present I just want to help others AVOID having to endure the uncomfortable and most frustrating five decades that it took me to finally get myself straightened out. In general I'll try to only put those thoughts that apply to B/E here. Think I've done that. Or at least I've sure tried to. In the meantime,
I wish everyone well. Hey it's better to finally get my chops working properly while goin on seventy years of age. Than to never fix them at all.
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"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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