| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Carly
Regular Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2019
Posts: 68
Location: London
|
 Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:07 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| HaveTrumpetWillTravel wrote: | I'd say there are different cultural expectations too. In the US there tend to be long periods allowed for returns, whereas in other places return is disallowed and someone wishing for a trial period is seen as being very difficult. Personally, I tend not to return things often, but I value having that as an option if I'm genuinely dissatisfied. I also know there are instrument specific practices; for instance, violinists are often encouraged to demo several instruments for a period of weeks before deciding on one.
For OP, I would guess the store is small enough they could likely tell if/whether the instrument has been demoed. |
Yes, that is why they wanted us to go elsewhere, they did not like the questions being asked. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Andy Del
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Posts: 2665
Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So, in essence, you really want to buy a Getzen trumpet new, but the UK distributor - or one of the few stores who sell them and you are not getting along. Oops!
It looks like you have few options. Go order one internationally, and pay up the duties and taxes as applicable. It gets expensive if there is an issue with the instrument, as you'll be needing to send it back overseas. Locally, this is called a grey import and will not be supported by warranty at the local level.
Or suck it up and go back to the original store. You can always ask if that particular trumpet is a returned item of not. They can answer you, or tell you to shove off. You can purchase or not.*
Or, you can contact Brett at Getzen and ask for assistance in buying a new, in the box instrument. He, and the company, have amazing customer service and have always answered my questions promptly and helpfully.
With a niche market and small stock levels and even smaller demand, it can be necessary to be more accommodating if you want to buy something specific. You should try dealing with the distributor in Australia! 
cheers
Andy
_________________
so many horns, so few good notes... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Carly
Regular Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2019
Posts: 68
Location: London
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Andy Del wrote: | So, in essence, you really want to buy a Getzen trumpet new, but the UK distributor - or one of the few stores who sell them and you are not getting along. Oops!
It looks like you have few options. Go order one internationally, and pay up the duties and taxes as applicable. It gets expensive if there is an issue with the instrument, as you'll be needing to send it back overseas. Locally, this is called a grey import and will not be supported by warranty at the local level.
Or suck it up and go back to the original store. You can always ask if that particular trumpet is a returned item of not. They can answer you, or tell you to shove off. You can purchase or not.*
Or, you can contact Brett at Getzen and ask for assistance in buying a new, in the box instrument. He, and the company, have amazing customer service and have always answered my questions promptly and helpfully.
With a niche market and small stock levels and even smaller demand, it can be necessary to be more accommodating if you want to buy something specific. You should try dealing with the distributor in Australia!
cheers
Andy |
Nope, we just walk and move onto the next option on our list!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Crazy Finn
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8333
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Carly wrote: | | Nope, we just walk and move onto the next option on our list! |
You can certainly do that, but there's little guarantee that a different brand, make, model, store is going to be significantly different.
Your UK Getzen distributor might be willing to order you a brand new Getzen, direct. In my store, you would have to probably put a deposit for the full amount down, but we would have been willing to do it.
_________________
LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
khedger
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 754
Location: Cambridge, MA
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dayton wrote: | | Quote: | | Would we not be buying a used instrument? |
Perhaps one of the folks who actually works in a music store will chime in, but it doesn't seem unusual to me that a horn would have been played by someone else before you buy it. Only the biggest stores keep multiple "copies" of a horn in stock, and even then it isn't unusual for someone to want to try all the "copies" available as there are subtle variations in hand-made trumpets (like Getzens, Bachs, etc.).
If your concern is the cosmetic condition of the trumpet, you could ask for a discount if it is not "mint" or even ask for them to order you a new one. If your concern is health-related due to COVID-19, you could ask about a chem cleaning or other ways to ensure that the trumpet is safe to play.
Good luck! The Getzen DLX series horns are terrific! |
It's one thing to let someone play a horn in the store, but in my opinion selling horns that have been let out for a 'trial period' and then returned, as new instruments is dishonest. The instrument has not only been played and probably a LOT more than a single customer would have played it in the store, it has been moved in and out of the case, moved from location to location, etc. It may still be in fine shape, but the buyer should be told that it's a 'used' instrument and some discount arranged. Hell, even stores that sell electronic instruments and such offer discounts for 'demos' or 'scratch and dent' items. I'm surprised this practice by the UK store is even legal.....
keith |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Crazy Finn
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8333
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| khedger wrote: | It's one thing to let someone play a horn in the store, but in my opinion selling horns that have been let out for a 'trial period' and then returned, as new instruments is dishonest. The instrument has not only been played and probably a LOT more than a single customer would have played it in the store, it has been moved in and out of the case, moved from location to location, etc. It may still be in fine shape, but the buyer should be told that it's a 'used' instrument and some discount arranged. Hell, even stores that sell electronic instruments and such offer discounts for 'demos' or 'scratch and dent' items. I'm surprised this practice by the UK store is even legal.....
keith |
I don't disagree. However...
If a store sells a horn and someone returns it for a full refund and then the store has to turn around and sell it as used, then the store is absorbing the loss of the value of that instrument. Individually, that's not a big deal, but repeat it often enough and it makes a difference. Brick and mortar music stores aren't operating on big enough margins to make that viable in the long run. They would either have to charge a restocking fee on any and every return to offset the loss of value or simply not allow returns.
_________________
LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
khedger
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 754
Location: Cambridge, MA
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
snip snip snip
Dayton is correct. Instruments are often played by customers who come in to the store, or sometimes they are taken out to demos and displays at schools, conventions, expos, and played by people at these events. Doing so does not make the horn "used."
snip snip snip
|
Not to quibble, but it should be said that having the instrument played in the store, or taken out to trade shows and such by store personnel is NOT the same as handing the horn to a customer (selling it on a trial basis or whatever) and having it come back a few weeks later. I use an automobile analogy. If I am a car dealer, I may use some of the stock now and then to let drivers demo the cars. I might not use the same car all of the time and I will keep the mileage and use low....and then sell the car as new. However, if I sell the car and the driver takes it off of the lot and for some reason it's returned later....at that point. It's a used car. Period.
It doesn't matter that trumpets don't cost as much as cars. Trumpets are still fairly expensive items for most people and the principal is the same.
keith |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12662
Location: Gardena, Ca
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Crazy Finn wrote: | | If a store sells a horn and someone returns it for a full refund and then the store has to turn around and sell it as used, then the store is absorbing the loss of the value of that instrument. Individually, that's not a big deal, but repeat it often enough and it makes a difference. Brick and mortar music stores aren't operating on big enough margins to make that viable in the long run. They would either have to charge a restocking fee on any and every return to offset the loss of value or simply not allow returns. |
Compared to the online retailers the brick and mortar locations have a huge advantage in this situation.
For brick and mortar stores only their returns end up triggering a used sale, restocking fee or discount. But for online retailers there is no way to try before purchasing, thus no way to sell to the wary, and intelligent customer, who wants to try before buying without penalty. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Carly
Regular Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2019
Posts: 68
Location: London
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LittleRusty wrote: | | Crazy Finn wrote: | | If a store sells a horn and someone returns it for a full refund and then the store has to turn around and sell it as used, then the store is absorbing the loss of the value of that instrument. Individually, that's not a big deal, but repeat it often enough and it makes a difference. Brick and mortar music stores aren't operating on big enough margins to make that viable in the long run. They would either have to charge a restocking fee on any and every return to offset the loss of value or simply not allow returns. |
Compared to the online retailers the brick and mortar locations have a huge advantage in this situation.
For brick and mortar stores only their returns end up triggering a used sale, restocking fee or discount. But for online retailers there is no way to try before purchasing, thus no way to sell to the wary, and intelligent customer, who wants to try before buying without penalty. |
Intelligent customers also ask reasonable questions about how a company operates so they can determine if it is a company that can be trusted to do business.
Last edited by Carly on Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Carly
Regular Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2019
Posts: 68
Location: London
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| khedger wrote: | | Quote: |
snip snip snip
Dayton is correct. Instruments are often played by customers who come in to the store, or sometimes they are taken out to demos and displays at schools, conventions, expos, and played by people at these events. Doing so does not make the horn "used."
snip snip snip
|
Not to quibble, but it should be said that having the instrument played in the store, or taken out to trade shows and such by store personnel is NOT the same as handing the horn to a customer (selling it on a trial basis or whatever) and having it come back a few weeks later. I use an automobile analogy. If I am a car dealer, I may use some of the stock now and then to let drivers demo the cars. I might not use the same car all of the time and I will keep the mileage and use low....and then sell the car as new. However, if I sell the car and the driver takes it off of the lot and for some reason it's returned later....at that point. It's a used car. Period.
It doesn't matter that trumpets don't cost as much as cars. Trumpets are still fairly expensive items for most people and the principal is the same.
keith |
Agree, a good analogy that was in wait to be used. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Carly
Regular Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2019
Posts: 68
Location: London
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| khedger wrote: | | Dayton wrote: | | Quote: | | Would we not be buying a used instrument? |
Perhaps one of the folks who actually works in a music store will chime in, but it doesn't seem unusual to me that a horn would have been played by someone else before you buy it. Only the biggest stores keep multiple "copies" of a horn in stock, and even then it isn't unusual for someone to want to try all the "copies" available as there are subtle variations in hand-made trumpets (like Getzens, Bachs, etc.).
If your concern is the cosmetic condition of the trumpet, you could ask for a discount if it is not "mint" or even ask for them to order you a new one. If your concern is health-related due to COVID-19, you could ask about a chem cleaning or other ways to ensure that the trumpet is safe to play.
Good luck! The Getzen DLX series horns are terrific! |
It's one thing to let someone play a horn in the store, but in my opinion selling horns that have been let out for a 'trial period' and then returned, as new instruments is dishonest. The instrument has not only been played and probably a LOT more than a single customer would have played it in the store, it has been moved in and out of the case, moved from location to location, etc. It may still be in fine shape, but the buyer should be told that it's a 'used' instrument and some discount arranged. Hell, even stores that sell electronic instruments and such offer discounts for 'demos' or 'scratch and dent' items. I'm surprised this practice by the UK store is even legal.....
keith |
Hi Keith, it is not legal to do this in the UK under the Trade descriptions act 1968. Yet here we are, a main distributor.
Last edited by Carly on Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Carly
Regular Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2019
Posts: 68
Location: London
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
keith[/quote]
I don't disagree. However...
If a store sells a horn and someone returns it for a full refund and then the store has to turn around and sell it as used, then the store is absorbing the loss of the value of that instrument. Individually, that's not a big deal, but repeat it often enough and it makes a difference. Brick and mortar music stores aren't operating on big enough margins to make that viable in the long run. They would either have to charge a restocking fee on any and every return to offset the loss of value or simply not allow returns.[/quote]
Appreciated, though that is for the store to determine, it should not be at the expense of the customer in being misinformed about their potential purchase. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Carly
Regular Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2019
Posts: 68
Location: London
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Crazy Finn wrote: | | Carly wrote: | | Nope, we just walk and move onto the next option on our list! |
You can certainly do that, but there's little guarantee that a different brand, make, model, store is going to be significantly different.
Your UK Getzen distributor might be willing to order you a brand new Getzen, direct. In my store, you would have to probably put a deposit for the full amount down, but we would have been willing to do it. |
Agree Crazy, there are no guarantees, this dealer did not have the courtesy to answer reasonable questions they immediately jumped to misguided assumption, caused offence and lost custom.
The significant difference is how a seller responds to a customers enquiries and does not cause offence. They could not be troubled to talk about ordering direct, they patronisingly, "encourage' customers that ask such questions to look elsewhere.
Had they engaged professionally they would have found that their quality control was acceptable but not their ethics. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12662
Location: Gardena, Ca
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Carly wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: | | Crazy Finn wrote: | | If a store sells a horn and someone returns it for a full refund and then the store has to turn around and sell it as used, then the store is absorbing the loss of the value of that instrument. Individually, that's not a big deal, but repeat it often enough and it makes a difference. Brick and mortar music stores aren't operating on big enough margins to make that viable in the long run. They would either have to charge a restocking fee on any and every return to offset the loss of value or simply not allow returns. |
Compared to the online retailers the brick and mortar locations have a huge advantage in this situation.
For brick and mortar stores only their returns end up triggering a used sale, restocking fee or discount. But for online retailers there is no way to try before purchasing, thus no way to sell to the wary, and intelligent customer, who wants to try before buying without penalty. |
Intelligent customers also ask reasonable questions about how a company operates so they can determine if it is a company that can be trusted to do business. |
I hope I didn’t offend with my post. What I meant was that an intelligent customer is wary and careful. As you seem to be. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Irving
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 1887
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
Carly you can probably arrange to buy one of these horns under your conditions. Write to Brett Getzen. He posts here or you can go through getzen.com . There is still free trade between The EU and the UK till 31/12, so you could buy the horn at any EU dealer that sells Getzen.
You might need to purchase the horn in advance or offer to do so cause these horns are not well known. If you were to order the horn and decide not to buy it , then the dealer would be stuck with it, and might not be able to sell it. You would have to keep the horn as well. If you are willing to buy under these conditions I would bet that somebody in the EU would be willing to order you one. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Carly
Regular Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2019
Posts: 68
Location: London
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Irving wrote: | Carly you can probably arrange to buy one of these horns under your conditions. Write to Brett Getzen. He posts here or you can go through getzen.com . There is still free trade between The EU and the UK till 31/12, so you could buy the horn at any EU dealer that sells Getzen.
You might need to purchase the horn in advance or offer to do so cause these horns are not well known. If you were to order the horn and decide not to buy it , then the dealer would be stuck with it, and might not be able to sell it. You would have to keep the horn as well. If you are willing to buy under these conditions I would bet that somebody in the EU would be willing to order you one. |
Thanks Irving, Brett was kind enough to respond from the outset and there are several options now open to us. All good! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Carly
Regular Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2019
Posts: 68
Location: London
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
All's well, that ends well!
_________________
Still looking for a decent trumpet! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Carly
Regular Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2019
Posts: 68
Location: London
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Carly wrote: | | All's well, that ends well! |
The Carol Brass 5060H GSS S that arrived from UK distributor yesterday had silver plating issues, so can not recommend Carol Brass, so much for checking before despatch. Have had better boxed units from Thomann. it was not meant to be, will look for alternative second trumpet or Flugel horn.
_________________
Still looking for a decent trumpet!
Last edited by Carly on Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:37 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brassnose
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 2052
Location: Germany
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
OK folks, I have been following this discussion but: what EXACTLY is the question? OP wants an absolutely new horn and can’t get it?
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Carly
Regular Member
Joined: 24 Jan 2019
Posts: 68
Location: London
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Brassnose wrote: | | OK folks, I have been following this discussion but: what EXACTLY is the question? OP wants an absolutely new horn and can’t get it? |
Hi there, this is concluded, Getzen due in tomorrow via alternative professional dealership. Oh wait....it was from the link you recommended, thanks
_________________
Still looking for a decent trumpet!
Last edited by Carly on Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
