| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
beagle
Veteran Member
Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 419
Location: Vienna, Austria
|
 Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:07 am Post subject: Re: How do you like to practice breathing? |
 |
|
| VetPsychWars wrote: | | kevin_soda wrote: | | Whether it's meditation, yoga, Breathing Gym, breathing bags, Air Trainer, Sandovalves, or countless other options to approach breathing practice. What do you like to do and what do you find works the best? What quirky products have been effective in your practice? |
Learned to do it in school and it is so ingrained I don't even think of it. Helps that I have super-efficient horns that only need a whisper to play.
Tom |
You learned to do it in school? I was somewhat of a prodigy in this regard and was doing it regularly before I started school, and I have it on good authority from my mother that I even breathed while still a baby.
_________________
Schagerl Sig. James Morrison
Selmer Paris Chorus 80J |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
deleted_user_687c31b
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:00 am Post subject: Re: How do you like to practice breathing? |
|
|
| beagle wrote: | | You learned to do it in school? I was somewhat of a prodigy in this regard and was doing it regularly before I started school, and I have it on good authority from my mother that I even breathed while still a baby. |
You guys're lucky! I only learned to breathe properly when playing when I stopped trying to breathe properly, and just breathed...
Gotta be envious of those child prodigy's... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kevin_soda
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 558
Location: Seattle
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Something to consider about active breathing exercises for all the naysayers out there:
We humans hold stress and tension in the body whether we play trumpet or not. Stress and tension effects our breathing. Practicing active breathing can help us unlock the breath. The purpose of my OP is to hear how people enjoy or enhance this process.
_________________
Kevin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jaw04
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 899
Location: California
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kevin_soda wrote: | Something to consider about active breathing exercises for all the naysayers out there:
We humans hold stress and tension in the body whether we play trumpet or not. Stress and tension effects our breathing. Practicing active breathing can help us unlock the breath. The purpose of my OP is to hear how people enjoy or enhance this process. |
Yeah, this is a really good point. Your body is capable of doing its jobs better when you do things like stretching, or weight lifting, or breathing exercises. I'm not advocating that when you play trumpet you need to be taking enormous breaths all the time (sometimes you do) or that breathing is the answer to all of your problems. But just because you can breathe does not mean you are using your air, or body, to their full potential. For me, daily yoga practice gets my body right and improves my breathing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deleted_user_687c31b
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kevin_soda wrote: | Something to consider about active breathing exercises for all the naysayers out there:
We humans hold stress and tension in the body whether we play trumpet or not. Stress and tension effects our breathing. Practicing active breathing can help us unlock the breath. The purpose of my OP is to hear how people enjoy or enhance this process. |
There's some truth in that. It may have not been clear through my 'joke', but to achieve this (for me personally at least), I had to stop focusing on my breathing and let my body handle it 'automatically' as it were. Before that, I was very actively trying to breathe properly and that led to a lot of tension in my body. These days, I can notice that my breathing is 'too high' when I'm stressed out but to me, the answer lies in relaxing first and my breath will follow, not the other way around (as is common for a lot of people). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
joey
Regular Member
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 59
Location: Bloomington IN
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
As some have already pointed out, breathing is something that we, as humans, are generally pretty good at. Trumpet players, as we do with many things, have tried to turn breathing into some great mystery that we need to solve.
As I've said many times in many lessons and masterclasses:
Breathing is so easy babies do it in their sleep.
Unless there is some underlying problem that someone has, there is no real need to practice breathing away from the horn. You're already breathing...or you'd be dead.
_________________
Joey Tartell
Indiana University |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kevin_soda
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 558
Location: Seattle
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| joey wrote: | As some have already pointed out, breathing is something that we, as humans, are generally pretty good at. Trumpet players, as we do with many things, have tried to turn breathing into some great mystery that we need to solve.
As I've said many times in many lessons and masterclasses:
Breathing is so easy babies do it in their sleep.
Unless there is some underlying problem that someone has, there is no real need to practice breathing away from the horn. You're already breathing...or you'd be dead. |
I don't want to make assumptions but I'm guessing some of your physical traits may have changed since you were a baby.
_________________
Kevin
Last edited by kevin_soda on Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jaw04
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 899
Location: California
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| joey wrote: | As some have already pointed out, breathing is something that we, as humans, are generally pretty good at. Trumpet players, as we do with many things, have tried to turn breathing into some great mystery that we need to solve.
As I've said many times in many lessons and masterclasses:
Breathing is so easy babies do it in their sleep.
Unless there is some underlying problem that someone has, there is no real need to practice breathing away from the horn. You're already breathing...or you'd be dead. |
Breathing is easy, but a lot of players have problems with it when applied to trumpet playing. What do you do with students that get very tense, bulging neck, start almost hyperventilating because they are stacking air, shoulders rising, missing notes, etc you know, the stuff trumpet players do? Isn't breathing shallow and getting tense from the chest up the main culprit for a lot of bad trumpet playing? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
joey
Regular Member
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 59
Location: Bloomington IN
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
A couple of things to mention at this point:
1) My physical traits have changed quite a bit since birth, but I haven't had to relearn how to walk or talk since I learned them initially. Breathing is no different.
2) When trumpet players have problems "with it when applied to trumpet playing"- that's proving my point.
Since you asked what I do, I'll tell you. I simplify. Let me make this as clear as I can: breathing is simple. Breathing is easy. There is no need to make it difficult or complicated to play the trumpet. You already know how to breathe.
_________________
Joey Tartell
Indiana University |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VetPsychWars
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 7196
Location: Greenfield WI
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:42 am Post subject: Re: How do you like to practice breathing? |
|
|
| beagle wrote: | | VetPsychWars wrote: | | kevin_soda wrote: | | Whether it's meditation, yoga, Breathing Gym, breathing bags, Air Trainer, Sandovalves, or countless other options to approach breathing practice. What do you like to do and what do you find works the best? What quirky products have been effective in your practice? |
Learned to do it in school and it is so ingrained I don't even think of it. Helps that I have super-efficient horns that only need a whisper to play.
Tom |
You learned to do it in school? I was somewhat of a prodigy in this regard and was doing it regularly before I started school, and I have it on good authority from my mother that I even breathed while still a baby. |
Within the context of trumpet playing, which is what I assumed the original question is about? Obviously I have been breathing since birth.
Tom
_________________
1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VetPsychWars
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 7196
Location: Greenfield WI
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| joey wrote: |
Since you asked what I do, I'll tell you. I simplify. Let me make this as clear as I can: breathing is simple. Breathing is easy. There is no need to make it difficult or complicated to play the trumpet. You already know how to breathe. |
I'm with you on that. You can tell a person who is trying too hard and then you need the relax metaphors like "let the air just fall into the horn out of your lungs".
But trumpet playing seems to be more of a zen thing than anything else... when you let go, you do so much better.
Tom
_________________
1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kevin_soda
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 558
Location: Seattle
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| joey wrote: | A couple of things to mention at this point:
1) My physical traits have changed quite a bit since birth, but I haven't had to relearn how to walk or talk since I learned them initially. Breathing is no different.
2) When trumpet players have problems "with it when applied to trumpet playing"- that's proving my point.
Since you asked what I do, I'll tell you. I simplify. Let me make this as clear as I can: breathing is simple. Breathing is easy. There is no need to make it difficult or complicated to play the trumpet. You already know how to breathe. |
Thanks for explaining again. With all due respect, Mr. Tartell, there are probably just as many accomplished professionals and educators that believe working on breathing can help as those who don't. This thread was started specifically to hear the perspectives of the former. It's fine that your experience and teaching are different. We're trying to have a different conversation. Thanks again and best wishes.
_________________
Kevin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jaw04
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 899
Location: California
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kevin_soda wrote: | | joey wrote: | A couple of things to mention at this point:
1) My physical traits have changed quite a bit since birth, but I haven't had to relearn how to walk or talk since I learned them initially. Breathing is no different.
2) When trumpet players have problems "with it when applied to trumpet playing"- that's proving my point.
Since you asked what I do, I'll tell you. I simplify. Let me make this as clear as I can: breathing is simple. Breathing is easy. There is no need to make it difficult or complicated to play the trumpet. You already know how to breathe. |
Thanks for explaining again. With all due respect, Mr. Tartell, there are probably just as many accomplished professionals and educators that believe working on breathing can help as those who don't. This thread was started specifically to hear the perspectives of the former. It's fine that your experience and teaching are different. We're trying to have a different conversation. Thanks again and best wishes. |
To be fair, I asked the question and he responded. Sorry if I took your thread off course! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deleted_user_48e5f31
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
Deleted by dfcoleman
Last edited by deleted_user_48e5f31 on Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EricV
Veteran Member
Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 227
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Having taken lessons from an ex C Gordon student for a number of years, i use Claudes walking/breathing excercises.
Most days i walk between 3-5 kms a day (about 30-40 mins) and these excercises give my blowing muscles in the lower back a good workout and fit in well with my walking. The book Brass Playing is no Harder than Deep Breathing details how to do them and i think there is an article on Jeff Purtles web site about them.
Take a look.
Cheers
EricV
_________________
CG Benge trumpet
Yamaha Xeno Cornet |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Billy B
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 6130
Location: Des Moines
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| joey wrote: | A couple of things to mention at this point:
1) My physical traits have changed quite a bit since birth, but I haven't had to relearn how to walk or talk since I learned them initially. Breathing is no different.
2) When trumpet players have problems "with it when applied to trumpet playing"- that's proving my point.
Since you asked what I do, I'll tell you. I simplify. Let me make this as clear as I can: breathing is simple. Breathing is easy. There is no need to make it difficult or complicated to play the trumpet. You already know how to breathe. |
No one likes this answer because it is too simple
_________________
Bill Bergren |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Grayman470
Regular Member
Joined: 21 May 2020
Posts: 55
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Billy B"] | joey wrote: | A couple of things to mention at this point:
1) My physical traits have changed quite a bit since birth, but I haven't had to relearn how to walk or talk since I learned them initially. Breathing is no different.
2) When trumpet players have problems "with it when applied to trumpet playing"- that's proving my point.
Since you asked what I do, I'll tell you. I simplify. Let me make this as clear as I can: breathing is simple. Breathing is easy. There is no need to make it difficult or complicated to play the trumpet. You already know how to breathe. |
Doing is not doing, just like in the ancient art of archery as described by zen masters. The best archers fulfill their draw of the bow naturally. Good trumpeters should do something similar when breathing. What you said makes sense from a pedagogical standpoint of mastery, why do anything complicated to such a natural process that we already know how to do. I agree with you. Saying it that simply is good, but having that mentality is easier said than done when applied. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trumpet56
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Posts: 623
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I have a yawn and stretch much like when I wake up in the morning. I then test the resistance of the trumpet. To me its not about blowing air into the trumpet, its more about energizing the air that is already inside the instrument. I like the lazy way of practicing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deleted_user_687c31b
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 1996
Posts: 0
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Grayman470 wrote: | | Saying it that simply is good, but having that mentality is easier said than done when applied. |
Agreed. I had this particular issue, where I focused so much on breathing properly that I locked my muscles and my air. What helped me was focusing on something else entirely. William Adam instructs to mentally focus on the sound you want to make, not your body. That really helped me.
When you tell someone not to think of a pink elephant, that's likely the first thing they think about. But if you tell them to count the number of taxis driving by on a television screen, chances are high they'll never notice there's also a gorilla on a bike in the background. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Billy B
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004
Posts: 6130
Location: Des Moines
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| hibidogrulez wrote: | | Grayman470 wrote: | | Saying it that simply is good, but having that mentality is easier said than done when applied. |
Agreed. I had this particular issue, where I focused so much on breathing properly that I locked my muscles and my air. What helped me was focusing on something else entirely. William Adam instructs to mentally focus on the sound you want to make, not your body. That really helped me.
When you tell someone not to think of a pink elephant, that's likely the first thing they think about. But if you tell them to count the number of taxis driving by on a television screen, chances are high they'll never notice there's also a gorilla on a bike in the background. |
_________________
Bill Bergren |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
