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kalijah
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3257
Location: Alabama
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 Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Agreed. I had this particular issue, where I focused so much on breathing properly that I locked my muscles and my air. |
The problem is then what is taught as "proper" but is counterproductive.
The "firm" diaphragm instructions or other "locked" muscles techniques are counterproductive, unnatural and encourages counterproductive tension.
Not to mention that it is highly inefficient from a muscular energy standpoint.
At the same time, blowing effort, that is, exhalation effort, IS required in varying amounts depending on the pitch and loudness at any particular instant.
One will NEVER be able to play all that is required of music by letting the air "fall out" of the body.
The elastic recoil is always in play and is not an option. It also diminishes with lung air depletion and must be increasingly replaced by active exhalation as the musical note or phrase is extended.
Not all air power directly contributes to sound power. But improvements can be made in efficiency with improved embouchure function and tone production skill.
Improved efficiency requires less blowing effort in general not more.
| Quote: | | There is no need to make it difficult or complicated to play the trumpet. You already know how to breathe. |
But a slow sustained exhalation, or even short segments of exhalation, that are intermittent, all against a resistance, are not quite the same as respiratory breathing or even coughing. So the actions ARE different than what is naturally done for respiration or coughing.
We learn to control these in a musical activity through practice, just as we learn to control the lips to produce tone. As the lips have a more natural an specific function, namely related to eating. |
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kevin_soda
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Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 558
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:46 am Post subject: |
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To set the record straight, I don't do anything to practice breathing specifically. That's why I brought it up in the first place. I enjoy yoga and meditation and I believe they help my trumpet playing but maybe that's only because those things help with everything. There are lots of fun things we can do and some of them can help.
The problem I have with the simple explanations is that, while they are 100% accurate, they don't actually provide a student with the tools to succeed. If you don't have the clarity of mind to stay focused on the sound, you're bound to get distracted by innumerable things. Are you teaching students to meditate trumpet?
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mdarnton
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Joined: 08 Mar 2019
Posts: 122
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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since it's such an open-ended question. . .
I have always had respiratory problems. A few years ago I started conventional deep breathing exercises, just to use some lung that was in storage. When I started trumpet I had endurance problems, and looked for breathing exercises, found one for expanding lung capacity, and did that religiously. My capacity increased rather quickly (because I wasn't really tapping it all) as did my endurance. Also, a lot of minor respiratory problems went away, and I could stop using an inhaler so often.
The exercise I do is to take in as much air as possible, then take more than possible, as much as I can, exhale, repeat. That's the short explanation. It's worked wonders for me off the trumpet as well as on.
In my first year there have been a couple of major breakthroughs. That was one, learning to relax my lips was another, and the third was to get more of that relaxed lip into the mouthpiece. Big gains each time! |
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Colekg
New Member
Joined: 19 Aug 2020
Posts: 1
Location: New York City
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:44 am Post subject: Breathing with the word "up" |
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| I find the saying or thinking the word "up" helps me take an efficient and deep breath. This was one of the few things that I was able to really take away from my lessons with Charles Schlueter. I valued what he has to say but it, didn't always click with my approach. I learned what I could! |
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khedger
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 754
Location: Cambridge, MA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| joey wrote: | As some have already pointed out, breathing is something that we, as humans, are generally pretty good at. Trumpet players, as we do with many things, have tried to turn breathing into some great mystery that we need to solve.
As I've said many times in many lessons and masterclasses:
Breathing is so easy babies do it in their sleep.
Unless there is some underlying problem that someone has, there is no real need to practice breathing away from the horn. You're already breathing...or you'd be dead. |
This is not true. Most people DO NOT use a significant portion of their breathing capacity. They don't need to just to go through their day. However, learning to breathe more fully results in a reduction in stress and clearer and more efficient use of the brain (remember, all that breathing is to oxygenate the blood, more oxygen taken in means more oxygen to the brain.)
keith |
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Rapier232
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Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 1322
Location: Twixt the Moor and the Sea, UK
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| khedger wrote: |
This is not true. Most people DO NOT use a significant portion of their breathing capacity. They don't need to just to go through their day. However, learning to breathe more fully results in a reduction in stress and clearer and more efficient use of the brain (remember, all that breathing is to oxygenate the blood, more oxygen taken in means more oxygen to the brain.)
keith |
But this is also not true. There is 21% oxygen in each breath we take, we breathe out 16% oxygen, so only ever use 5% of available oxygen. The only way to ‘take in’ more oxygen is by using air tanks or similar.
It’s why CPR works, we blow in air containing 3 times more oxygen than the person requires.
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Ed Kennedy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3187
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| Billy B wrote: | | joey wrote: | A couple of things to mention at this point:
1) My physical traits have changed quite a bit since birth, but I haven't had to relearn how to walk or talk since I learned them initially. Breathing is no different.
2) When trumpet players have problems "with it when applied to trumpet playing"- that's proving my point.
Since you asked what I do, I'll tell you. I simplify. Let me make this as clear as I can: breathing is simple. Breathing is easy. There is no need to make it difficult or complicated to play the trumpet. You already know how to breathe. |
No one likes this answer because it is too simple |
Sounds like Jake (Arnold) to me. Yawn and sigh! |
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kevin_soda
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Posts: 558
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Here's Tom Hooten talking about momentum and I think it makes a lot of sense. It's got me thinking about golf swings.
https://youtu.be/y760n65zr9c
I understand the danger of overthinking but I also don't care what Joey Tartell says. He doesn't play DHCs with sleeping baby breaths.
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