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deleted_user_687c31b
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 Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:01 pm Post subject: Olds: Recording vs Super dilemma |
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A few years back I purchased an Olds Recording from my trumpet teacher. I immediately fell in love with it and to this day I can't imagine myself playing any other horn...
...except...
...recently I watched this video from Trent Austin playing an Olds Super and I just cannot get the sound out of my head. He just sounds so fantastically jazzy on it!
My dilemma is...should I get an Olds Super, or should I keep practicing and tweaking my Olds Recording until it too, can make that sound? Do any of you know of any recordings of a Recording sounding similar to this? Is it the player, or the horn?
Any opinions are much appreciated!
NOTE: the horn in question is in fact, not a Super Recording but rather a regular Super.
Last edited by deleted_user_687c31b on Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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delano
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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The sound? It's for 85% the player, 10% the mouthpiece and for 5% the horn.
There is no real dilemma, forget the vintage stuff though the Recording and the Super recording are great horns. Go for a modern top horn and the choices are great especially if you have a Super Recording budget. |
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deleted_user_687c31b
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | The sound? It's for 85% the player, 10% the mouthpiece and for 5% the horn. |
That's actually quite helpful to read.  Thank you.
| delano wrote: | | especially if you have a Super Recording budget. |
Just for clarity, I'm not talking about the Super Recording but the Super. I haven't heard a Super Recording yet that I liked and I'm not really interested in them (especially given the price).
As for the budget, that's the main issue. I can afford it (and Olds Supers aren't THAT expensive), but not easily. |
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delano
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:31 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, I mixed it up with another clip of Trent (or maybe even Horntrader).
The Olds Super is (was) indeed a great trumpet but they tend to be pricey nowadays AND they are often too old and too worn.
Theo van Kampen in Amsterdam had one but sold it quickly when he got his Bach 43. That one was much better. Maybe he will chime in.
In general I lost my faith in (most of the) vintage horns as daily players.
A real good Super will set you back for at least 1200 euro and you still have 50+ years horn. |
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deleted_user_687c31b
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | Theo van Kampen in Amsterdam had one but sold it quickly when he got his Bach 43. That one was much better. Maybe he will chime in.
In general I lost my faith in (most of the) vintage horns as daily players. |
Do you have any youtube links with good examples of the Bach 43? I've done a quick search but most just didn't do it for me (even a Trent Austin variant ).
I also own a Getzen 700 Special from when I was a child. It's a decent horn but somehow the sound is always 'off' for me. The same goes for most Bach's I've heard. My guess is I haven't heard the right one yet! |
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delano
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:22 am Post subject: |
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The Bach 43 is considered having the brightest sounding bell of all the Bachs and is also said to be one of the easiest playing Bachs. I never played one, thanks to the corona-crises I did not have the opportunity to try Theo's horn.
The Getzen 700SP is, I'm afraid, not a very good horn. The weird thing is that the regular 700 is quite good. If I understood well, even the Getzen family themselves are not very pleased with the 700SP though it may have its own student-public. |
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OldSchoolEuph
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:14 am Post subject: |
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When it comes to what to play on, first you have to discover what features work best for you. "Model A" vs "Model B", or make vs make, doesn't really get you there. The question is, what physical elements define how you interact, good or bad, with each. Once you know what works best for you, then get a modern horn with those attributes. The last 20 years really has seen fantastic improvement in trumpet design.
Oh, and by the way, the 43 is no where near the brightest Bach bell. Of those commonly still available, the 7 and especially 1B are certainly brighter by nature. Selmer always claimed the 25 is too, though I think that bell varies with the player and other factors quite a bit.
A super is a heavier yellow brass bell vs the high copper lighter bell of the Recording. The bracing is different as well. Still, the properties tend to be offsetting in that mix and what you heard likely is more player than horn. Play every horn yo can get your hands on. Find the features that give you what you want. Then, and only then, decide what you are going to play long term.
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deleted_user_687c31b
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| That's solid advice. I think I'll stick to my Olds Recording for now. Thanks all. |
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delano
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:19 am Post subject: |
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Here about the Bach bells:
https://www.bachloyalist.com/trumpet/trumpet_bells.htm
I forgot about the 'new' but very old T bell (now 1 B[ronze] I suppose) which is indeed really bright.
As I said, I have no experience with the 43 bell but I have some experience with the 7 bell (on the special edition NY7 model) and the 25 bell on the lb Bach. Both are bright to a certain extent but I am not sure about how bright in relation to the 43 bell. It seems that there is also a lightweight bronze 43 bell. |
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ChopsGone
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:10 am Post subject: |
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For more Super sounds, listen to Jonah Jones on trumpet and Red Nichols on cornet.
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stevericks
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:56 am Post subject: |
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Both the Recording and Super are great horns. I’ve played a Super for 50 years and a Recording for about 15. Personally, I much prefer the Super over the Recording. The Recording has a broader sound, and is darker than the Super. The Super’s sound is slightly more focused, and brighter- what I envision as what a trumpet should sound like (to each his own). Personally, I think the Super is one of the most underrated trumpets. One interesting characteristic is the Recording is more “work” to play. It requires more effort. The Super is one of the most “in tune” trumpets available. I have 20 different pro horns so that is saying something.
You won’t get the same sound out of the two horns. I’d pick the one I like the best. Good luck.
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theslawdawg
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| stevericks wrote: | Both the Recording and Super are great horns. I’ve played a Super for 50 years and a Recording for about 15. Personally, I much prefer the Super over the Recording. The Recording has a broader sound, and is darker than the Super. The Super’s sound is slightly more focused, and brighter- what I envision as what a trumpet should sound like (to each his own). Personally, I think the Super is one of the most underrated trumpets. One interesting characteristic is the Recording is more “work” to play. It requires more effort. The Super is one of the most “in tune” trumpets available. I have 20 different pro horns so that is saying something.
You won’t get the same sound out of the two horns. I’d pick the one I like the best. Good luck. |
Great explanation. Thank you, Steve.
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | The sound? It's for 85% the player, 10% the mouthpiece and for 5% the horn. |
Well, right at the top of this thread is, perhaps, the key. Listen to Trent on this video and tell me that you don't hear a big difference in sound just by changing the mouthpiece on the same horn. Maybe you should begin the search this way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApZ5ZauTj9U
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Bogey Factory
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| stevericks wrote: | Both the Recording and Super are great horns. I’ve played a Super for 50 years and a Recording for about 15. Personally, I much prefer the Super over the Recording. The Recording has a broader sound, and is darker than the Super. The Super’s sound is slightly more focused, and brighter- what I envision as what a trumpet should sound like (to each his own). Personally, I think the Super is one of the most underrated trumpets. One interesting characteristic is the Recording is more “work” to play. It requires more effort. The Super is one of the most “in tune” trumpets available. I have 20 different pro horns so that is saying something.
You won’t get the same sound out of the two horns. I’d pick the one I like the best. Good luck. |
+1
This is exactly my experience with the Super and the Recording as well. The Super is a bright horn but not overly edgy. It's easy to play right down the middle from pp to ff without noticeable timbre changes. It sort of reminds me of a good C trumpet in that regard. My Benge 2x is kind of like that as well.
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delano
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | delano wrote: | | The sound? It's for 85% the player, 10% the mouthpiece and for 5% the horn. |
Well, right at the top of this thread is, perhaps, the key. Listen to Trent on this video and tell me that you don't hear a big difference in sound just by changing the mouthpiece on the same horn. Maybe you should begin the search this way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApZ5ZauTj9U |
No, indeed no big difference in sound, only different playing.
No need to change mouthpieces, same horn, same mouthpiece, start at 7.58 and enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlJ6OiVLX9I&t=2s
Last edited by delano on Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:00 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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deleted_user_687c31b
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | Well, right at the top of this thread is, perhaps, the key. Listen to Trent on this video and tell me that you don't hear a big difference in sound just by changing the mouthpiece on the same horn. Maybe you should begin the search this way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApZ5ZauTj9U |
You're right about that actually. When I wrote the original post, I was kinda on the fence about getting a Super. I really like the smoky jazz sound and to me, Trent really nailed it down in that video. However, after your replies I started experimenting a bit with the mouthpieces I had laying around and I discovered that I could in fact, somewhat approach that sound on my Olds Recording as well. With practice, it might even sound good.
So sorry about the plethora of Olds related questions lately. My mind tends to get obsessive about 'whatif' questions and although I've told myself I only want to want 1 trumpet, and to be satisfied with what I have, there's another part that keeps poking me with hypotheticals.
Thank you all for your advice and understanding. |
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theslawdawg
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| hibidogrulez wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | | Well, right at the top of this thread is, perhaps, the key. Listen to Trent on this video and tell me that you don't hear a big difference in sound just by changing the mouthpiece on the same horn. Maybe you should begin the search this way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApZ5ZauTj9U |
You're right about that actually. When I wrote the original post, I was kinda on the fence about getting a Super. I really like the smoky jazz sound and to me, Trent really nailed it down in that video. However, after your replies I started experimenting a bit with the mouthpieces I had laying around and I discovered that I could in fact, somewhat approach that sound on my Olds Recording as well. With practice, it might even sound good.
So sorry about the plethora of Olds related questions lately. My mind tends to get obsessive about 'whatif' questions and although I've told myself I only want to want 1 trumpet, and to be satisfied with what I have, there's another part that keeps poking me with hypotheticals.
Thank you all for your advice and understanding. |
I'm not going to get into the tone debate (it's the horn, no it's not, it's the mouthpiece, no it's not, it's the person).
I will say in regards to the SUPER, at the end of the day, you are going to get a pretty penny for that horn (if you sell it). And remember, the more expensive it is...the richer it sounds. Get it?
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | | delano wrote: | | The sound? It's for 85% the player, 10% the mouthpiece and for 5% the horn. |
Well, right at the top of this thread is, perhaps, the key. Listen to Trent on this video and tell me that you don't hear a big difference in sound just by changing the mouthpiece on the same horn. Maybe you should begin the search this way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApZ5ZauTj9U |
No, indeed no big difference in sound, only different playing.
No need to change mouthpieces, same horn, same mouthpiece, start at 7.58 and enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlJ6OiVLX9I&t=2s |
I'm not challenging you, just a question. You really don't hear a difference in sound when Trent changes mouthpieces?
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khedger
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Olds: Recording vs Super dilemma |
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| hibidogrulez wrote: | A few years back I purchased an Olds Recording from my trumpet teacher. I immediately fell in love with it and to this day I can't imagine myself playing any other horn...
...except...
...recently I watched this video from Trent Austin playing an Olds Super and I just cannot get the sound out of my head. He just sounds so fantastically jazzy on it!
My dilemma is...should I get an Olds Super, or should I keep practicing and tweaking my Olds Recording until it too, can make that sound? Do any of you know of any recordings of a Recording sounding similar to this? Is it the player, or the horn?
Any opinions are much appreciated!
NOTE: the horn in question is in fact, not a Super Recording but rather a regular Super. |
MOST of the quality of sound is determined by the player. The horn DOES play a role, but I think not the major one. My advice to you is this: if you want to get the best daily driver horn, the one you play day to day, then go with what works best. If you're Recording works well for you, then I'd say 'if it's not broke, don't fix it'.....if you want to amass a collection of horns, then by all means have fun building an interesting collection 
keith |
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delano
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | delano wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | | delano wrote: | | The sound? It's for 85% the player, 10% the mouthpiece and for 5% the horn. |
Well, right at the top of this thread is, perhaps, the key. Listen to Trent on this video and tell me that you don't hear a big difference in sound just by changing the mouthpiece on the same horn. Maybe you should begin the search this way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApZ5ZauTj9U |
No, indeed no big difference in sound, only different playing.
No need to change mouthpieces, same horn, same mouthpiece, start at 7.58 and enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlJ6OiVLX9I&t=2s |
I'm not challenging you, just a question. You really don't hear a difference in sound when Trent changes mouthpieces? |
I said: no big difference. There is a big difference in style. Trent plays first mf in mostly the middle register. After changing mp's he played ff with some pushing in the upper register so there is a perception of a big difference. But I strongly believe Trent could do the same without changing mouthpieces and for comparing the sound: listen to his last mf note on the screamer and you will hear the same sound as on his regular oiece. |
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