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Getzen 700 Special upgrade


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hibidogrulez
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:51 pm    Post subject: Getzen 700 Special upgrade Reply with quote

My first trumpet, which was a gift from my parents at age 10-11 or so, was a Getzeen 700 Special. I've played it for most of my life until about 5 years ago, I got an Olds Recording. From what I understand, the 700 Special isn't a very well reputed horn (even Getzen themselves seem to think so) and I'm inclined to agree, but given its history and sentimental value, I'm not inclined to get rid of it. However, I'm also not playing it and I was wondering if I could do something to fix that.

Hypothetically, if I were to make adjustments to a Getzen 700 Special to make it a 'better' trumpet, where would I start? From what I understand just about anything affects a trumpet. I'd like to keep it as close to what it is now, but maybe some tweaks can improve it? The one thing I'm seriously considering is getting the leadpie and/or bell braces reversed, or maybe replace the tuning slide with a rounded version. Would that help though?

Just for the record, buying a different trumpet is not an option here.
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:59 am    Post subject: Improvements Reply with quote

A rounded slide is a great starting point. My suggestions are: megatone /heavytop mouthpiece, new springs, heavy bottom caps, tone rings.
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Getzen Canadian Brass CB 10 b trumpet 1995.Getzen 800 Eterna cornet 1989 Canadian brass 3, Wick 4 X Heavytop, Bach Megatone 5 B, 5 C trumpet mps.Bach megatone 4 B, 5 B, Bach 3 C, 5 C standard cornet mouthpieces.


Last edited by jondrowjf@gmail.com on Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:12 am; edited 3 times in total
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cgaiii
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would first ask, what do you want to change about the trumpet?
Do you want it more open? Do you want some change in the sound quality? Tell the forum what you like and dislike about the 700 and then knowledgeable people can offer intelligent suggestions. "Better" is so subjective that people can only offer what they prefer.

I faced this dilemma with my Yamaha 4335S that I played for many years. I wanted to use it as a backup, but it was just not the horn I wanted to play anymore. After debating all kinds of changes, I realized that the horn is what it is and made no alterations. Like your Getzen 700, it has sentimental value. I will take it out occasionally and play it within the parameters in which I enjoy playing it, but that is it now. I wound up getting a used horn as a backup eventually (my Yamaha YTR-6335). Without a fair amount of expense, it is difficult to fundamentally alter a horn. That said, there are lots of tweaks that may make a difference, such as adjusting the mouthpiece gap, aligning the valves, a rounder tuning slide that has been mentioned. (For me, in the end, it was cheaper to get another horn, though you say this it not an option for you.)
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James Becker
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m interested in knowing what you would like to accomplish with changes. Any changes will effect the blow, sound or pitch.

One feature of the 700 Special is nickel inner slides, which tend to make a trumpet sound brighter. The 700S Eterna II has gold brass inner slides, so a swap of the main tuning slide warm up the tone. We happen to have a replacement 700S Eterna slide in stock should you be interested.

Perhaps a “tune up” in the form of a precision valve alignment and cleaning. This can to wonders to optimize your trumpet.

Getzen offers a gold plated trim kit we’ve sold in the past which would really dress up the appearance of your trumpet.

Feel free to contact our shop by phone 968-823-0580 or email sales@osmun.com to discuss any of the above suggestions. We’re here to help.
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James Becker
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
From what I understand, the 700 Special isn't a very well reputed horn (even Getzen themselves seem to think so)


Perhaps it is just a matter of nuance, but I think the issue with the 700SP is not that it isn't a "good" horn, but rather that it is a good student-level horn. From my perspective, it isn't much (any?) better than Getzen's fine 300/400 series student trumpets.

Getzen's student trumpets are generally regarded as among the very best student trumpets available, but few pros would make them their first choice for a gig. So, if someone is talking about upgrading from a student level horn, the 700SP, relatively speaking, isn't a big step up, compared to...say a Getzen 3050 or 900DLX (or even a 700S Eterna II) or a Bach Strad, Yamaha Xeno, etc.

If you are trying to change how the horn plays, you could look into a leadpipe replacement, a tuning slide replacement, changes to the bracing....A precision valve alignment might help as well.

I'd recommend that you talk to a top technician like Jim Becker or Charlie Melk and see what they might recommend. Fine tuning a trumpet may be outside the expertise of your local technician, who may spend much of his/her time fixing broken student trumpets. Before you do, you need to think about how you want the horn to be different to help guide their recommendations.

Good luck!
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delano
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When it is for sentimental reasons put it on display and leave it there.
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James Becker wrote:
I’m interested in knowing what you would like to accomplish with changes. Any changes will effect the blow, sound or pitch.

One feature of the 700 Special is nickel inner slides, which tend to make a trumpet sound brighter. The 700S Eterna II has gold brass inner slides, so a swap of the main tuning slide warm up the tone. We happen to have a replacement 700S Eterna slide in stock should you be interested.

Perhaps a “tune up” in the form of a precision valve alignment and cleaning. This can to wonders to optimize your trumpet.

Getzen offers a gold plated trim kit we’ve sold in the past which would really dress up the appearance of your trumpet.

Feel free to contact our shop by phone 968-823-0580 or email sales@osmun.com to discuss any of the above suggestions. We’re here to help.


How do the leadpipe and bell differ from the Eterna? Perhaps a leadpipe change? Or tweak the venturi?
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James Becker
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed Kennedy wrote:
How do the leadpipe and bell differ from the Eterna? Perhaps a leadpipe change? Or tweak the venturi?


That’s a great quest Ed. According to the Allied Supply catalog the 700 Special leadpipe and bell part numbers are not shared with other models. Where the 390, 490 and 590 Capri share the identical mouthpipe tube. That’s not to say the 700 Special doesn’t share the same taper as others, perhaps a different material, but can’t say for sure. The 700 Specialbrace flanges are round rather than diamond for Eterna and Eterna II trumpets and cornets.
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James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
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www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US
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hibidogrulez
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cgaiii wrote:
I would first ask, what do you want to change about the trumpet?
Do you want it more open? Do you want some change in the sound quality? Tell the forum what you like and dislike about the 700 and then knowledgeable people can offer intelligent suggestions. "Better" is so subjective that people can only offer what they prefer.

That's a very good question actually. My initial answer is that I don't really know. It always seemed like 'almost but not quite good enough'. It feels like a more traditional/classical horn than the Olds so I'm guessing that's what I kinda want to improve on it. At this point, I use the Getzen primarily for marching/outdoors gigs and playing taps.

To answer your question I took it out this evening together with my Olds and started comparing them. The first thing I noticed is that I like it better with my new mouthpieces than with the old 1/4C Bach piece I used to play it. It still felt a little more stuffy than my Olds and I had to work a little harder. The tone is less dark though and a little more piercing, but intonation is worse.

While trying different stuff, I remembered one of the many TH-posts about things affecting your sound and then got a hunch. My bottom valve caps were screwed on very tight, as in: twist 'til they can't go any tighter, and then just a bit more . I decided to loosen them and that makes such a big difference! Suddenly it no longer feels stuffy to play and I get a bit more control on tone too. It's still not as good as my Olds, but it does play a lot nicer than it ever had.

So what do I want from it? I still don't know. I guess I really wanted it to be useful as a backup horn. I'll have to see if the loose valve caps are enough for that.

delano wrote:
When it is for sentimental reasons put it on display and leave it there.

Actually did that a while ago. It looks nice on the wall, but I'd still like to play it occasionally as well.
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Tpts: Olds Recording & Getzen 700 SP
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Manuel de los Campos
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Getzen 700 Special upgrade Reply with quote

hibidogrulez wrote:

Hypothetically, if I were to make adjustments to a Getzen 700 Special to make it a 'better' trumpet, where would I start?


Trumpets are generally designed and build like as-is, it is very tricky to add a Frankenstein lead pipe or bell to whatever valve machine, even adding or changing braces can have surprising effects, not neccesary positiv ones...
I would leave your Getzen 700sp as she is and invest (or exchange her) in a Getzen 700S Eterna II. Than your will enter the World of Getzen Powerrrrr

That is a very nice world I can tell you
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mdarnton
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This actually leads to a question I've always had about a number of consumer products: sometimes "better" is an issue of better materials or more careful assembly, and that I understand. What I don't get is when lesser products could be built better with the same workmanship and similar materials, and their defects are due to "inferior by design".

WTF? What's being implied in this thread is that Getzen could take one of their better designs like, say, the 3050 and build it with cheaper materials and less construction control, but instead they've intentionally designed an inferior product. Is that really what's happening in the lower end of trumpets?
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James Becker
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep in mind, the 700 Special was built exclusively for select dealers at a price point. No doubt using existing components to keep the cost down. Having an extruded seamless bell like the 390/490 made of gold brass vs their standard two piece seamed construction. As many here already know, Getzen instruments deliver value for the dollar, so they don’t make junk. Any instrument can be altered to taste, it’s a question of how far you want to deviate from the original design.

The OP says his 700 Special sounds bright, and I’m not surprised (see my previous posting). The Getzen Eterna II 700S has a more middle of the road sound quality, due in part to the use of gold brass tubing. Adding an additional Eterna II slide would provide a contrast in tone color that might prove more useful.

My two cents.
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James Becker
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Osmun Music Inc.
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www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US
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hibidogrulez
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for your replies. It's nice to have a place to 'think out loud' and get some inspiring responses. I'll have to mull it over a bit. The nice thing about stuff like changing slides is that it's easy to reverse (which also goes for the braces to some extent) and a valve alignment (if needed) certainly won't diminish the horn. I'll do some research into the various tuning slide forms and/or brace position and the effect on the sound it may have.

Thanks all!
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dmh737
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 2 cents. You're nuts to sink money into a good student horn. If you are a pro player needing to tweak an already fine instrument, that's one thing. But to spend money to make a horn a little better is crazy. Again, my 2 cents.

BUT....2 things that would help.

Allied makes a pro leadpipe which is basically the Holton T101 pipe (based on a Mt Vernon Bach) which will greatly help. That and M/K can make you a main tuning slide that will improve the horn as well, but you have to know what changes in sound and playability you want to change for them to do their magic. Both of these changes will still limit the horn because of the bell's limitations.

Leadpipe - $100+, install another $50-$100
M/K Tuning Slide - $200

The issue is....... in my local Facebook Marketplace there are 2 Getzen 700S Eterna II horns for less than $400 right now.

Keep your horn. Play it occasionally. Pick up a 700S.

Thanks & Good Luck!

Dave
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James Becker
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We get all manner of instruments that hold fond memories by their owners. Everything from Olds, Getzen, Benge, Bach and many others. Far be it for me to insult them by belittling their choose of instrument. We are here to provide a service to satisfy our customer’s wishes.

BTW Schilke’s original S-series trumpets play pretty darn well with a seamless extruded bell.
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James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US
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hibidogrulez
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmh737 wrote:
My 2 cents. You're nuts to sink money into a good student horn.

You're not wrong, but as I explained, it's a bit of special case. I already have an excellent main horn. What I'd like to do is tweak my old trumpet to make it nice enough to use as a backup horn.

James Becker wrote:
We get all manner of instruments that hold fond memories by their owners. Everything from Olds, Getzen, Benge, Bach and many others. Far be it for me to insult them by belittling their choose of instrument. We are here to provide a service to satisfy our customer’s wishes.

That's a nice way to look at it.
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Tpts: Olds Recording & Getzen 700 SP
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delano wrote:
When it is for sentimental reasons put it on display and leave it there.


My sentiments, exactly. Would the money you put into it for a precision valve alignment and cleaning, etc. be worth it vs. putting that money into a professional level horn?
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:39 pm    Post subject: Upgrade Reply with quote

For the amount of money, you pay to modify trumpet. I agree with Delano, you would be better off buying a used professional trumpet. Have you played a Getzen Renaissance professional trumpet? I have owned both a Getzen 700 S Eterna trumpet and a Getzen Renaissance professional trumpet. Do not have experience with the Getzen 700 special trumpet. Currently owe a Getzen Renaissance professional trumpet. There is a noticeable difference in sound quality between the two trumpets.
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Getzen Canadian Brass CB 10 b trumpet 1995.Getzen 800 Eterna cornet 1989 Canadian brass 3, Wick 4 X Heavytop, Bach Megatone 5 B, 5 C trumpet mps.Bach megatone 4 B, 5 B, Bach 3 C, 5 C standard cornet mouthpieces.


Last edited by jondrowjf@gmail.com on Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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James Becker
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m surprised no one has mentioned Getzen valves in this thread. Regardless of price point, all models share the same high quality valves. Nope, no different class of valve for student or pro, just their best will do. The 700 Special shares the same valves by a number of boutique makers, they are that good. Mic 🎤 drop!
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James Becker
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Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before I modified a cherished horn for no particular reason other than trying to make it better, I'd invest in having the horn professionally cleaned, aligned, possibly even blueprinted. Only then if you find it lacking in any particular aspect should you consider asking an expert shop for potential solutions.
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