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Frankenhorn Combos


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tristanpthomas
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Joined: 24 Jun 2019
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:39 pm    Post subject: Frankenhorn Combos Reply with quote

Hello y’all,

As the owner of a frankenhorn myself; I’m curious if anyone else has found bell/body/leadpipe combinations that play significantly better than others. I currently play a 6445 w/Najoom 524 and a 229GH bell. I’m possibly looking to build another one..
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Danbassin
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Joined: 13 Oct 2013
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Location: Idyllwild, CA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a bit out-of-the box, but as a player who has enjoyed playing custom horns by Dave Monette for most of my solo work, I also regularly play two frankhorns for much of my ensemble work. They're both start with 1980s aftermarket Monette leadpipes which I was able to acquire secondhand, and both the Bb and C are Bach Sterling Silver bell horns. I'm not 100% sure that that work is done with either, but here are the specs, minus some numbers engraved on the Monette pipes which I've never been able to find additional infomation on:

Bb: Bach Sterling Silver 72ML with Monette leadpipe in reversed configuration; MK Drawing standard weight reversed braced sterling silver rounded large bore crook, and MK bronze valve slides (one-piece 3rd slide w/out water key).
1) This horn dates from before the "Sterling Plus" series, and the bell was hammered from sheet silver, rather than electro formed;
2) I also had a MK semi-round baced tuning slide made when I first started on this horn, but I rarely use it - turns out the sterling bell wasn't as bright as I thought it may have been, and the bronze tuning slide made the horn almost too mellow for the context in which I would normally use it;
3) I've been strongly considering adding MAW valves to take this horn to the next level...

C: Bach Sterling Silver Plus 229 L with Monette leadpipe in standard configuration and MK large bore semi-round braced tuning slide in Bb length, cut down to "S" pipe length, to accommodate the length of the Monette leadpipe.
1) I had the lacquer stripped from the body of the horn, which helped free up the response a bit, and recently added Jaeger Brass 'resonance enhancers' to the valve cluster, which added some nice focus;
2) I use a silver-plated yellow brass MK 1st slide with a ring rather than a saddle, mainly due to damage from the original lacquered Bach slide which had some damage when I first got the horn;
3) As above, I've been chewing on the idea of MAW valves.

Separately, as I prefer with most Bachs, I swapped out the aluminum action rods with brass ones, made by Osmun, and got vintage brass valve guides to replace the plastic ones. Both of these measures do something to try to imitate the two-piece valve cluster response of vintage corporation Bachs which these two horns, alas, are not.

There are some others, but these are the main ones in the quiver.

Happy practicing, happy tweaking,
-DB
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Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Picc;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
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DJtpt31
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Location: SoCal

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How interesting! One of my summer projects was working on building a frankenhorn. I got my hands on a Getzen horn that has a broken lead pipe and the solder that holds the bell is loose. The valve block and slides are in working order, so my thoughts are perhaps I can convert it into a different key. I have seen that the Getzen 300 series Eb/D tpt can be converted into a G trumpet and was looking to see if the same could be done on a Bb horn with the same level of success. Another option is installing a new lead pipe, get the solder done to secure the bell (maybe install a different bell) and have a 3rd valve slide rotary trigger built to access more notes in the lower register (I have also seen this custom work done). Weighting to see which is the better option.

I also have plenty of trombone bells and only a baritone valve block (no bell) with one stuck valve and the other 2 valves completely missing. Also no valve bottom caps. Somehow someway solder/connect the trombone bell to the baritone valve block and see what I get from there. A Tromtone???
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jimspeedjae
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put together my trumpet and flugel.

The flugel is basically a Kanstul 1525, but with a Carol valve block

The trumpet has an Eclipse interchangeable leadpipe, Carol valves and a Kanstul copper bell, Taylor chunky finger rings.

Built a few other things (and continue to do so) just because I have loads of parts and it's my hobby to do this kind of thing. They aren't all as successful. My attempt at converting a Chinese Eb to a tuning bell and different leadpipe had amusing results. Which was OK, as the Chinese piece of rubbish wasn't very amusing to begin with.
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stumac
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Joined: 19 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some years ago I aquired a Getzen Super Delux with a bell that had been severely crushed and an attempt to repair resulting in a lot of cracks filled with soft solder, I found a french Selmer Deville bell at a good price.

The Getzen bell has a joint at the rear brace, cutting the Selmer bell at the same diameter resulted in a bell 1" longer, to compensate I cut 1/2" from the each of the tuning slide legs and receiver.

Having a piece of Nickle Silver sheet 1mm thick I made a Kranz, turning a hardwood form to the bell profile, it took 27 annealing to reach the final shape and soldered it on, fitted a 1mm copper sheet brace into the bell tail with a lead washer to balance the extended bell.

Plays extremely well over the complete range.

Regards, Stuart.
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josephdb
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Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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Location: ATLANTA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a great Frankenhorn I have a Yamaha 6335 body a Yamaha MC2 lead pipe and a Bach 72g lightweight bell also the finger hook is an early Elkhart Bach. Looks like a Bach and is a true delight to play. Can be used for any type of music.
Joe
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THE BD
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I regularly play a double bell trumpet that a friend helped build for me.

Valve block, leadpipe and tuning slide are Carol Brass, 1st bell is a Fred Powell martin committee copy, 2nd off an Olds Ambassador. Switches between bells with a Holton French horn rotor, the trigger made from clarinet parts. braces are all from an Olds and Amado water keys reused from a Getzen mellophone. It's a blast to play!

We've been experimenting with a second frankenhorn, Also a Carol valve block with a Bach 7 leadpipe, and still experimenting with different tunable bell options and bracing. Should be a fun horn when done!
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Johank
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Location: Kil, Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What counts as a frankenhorn? I play on a bach 37 with a Josh Landress bronze besson copy leadpipe.

Is it a frankenhorn when the parts are from different horns from the same maker? My next project is a 95xxx cl bach valve body with a tuning 229 bell and 7r leadpipe with yamaha chigaco tuning slide. I have the valves and tuning slide, waiting for the bell and leadpipe in the mail.

/Johan
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tristanpthomas
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Joined: 24 Jun 2019
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, there are some pretty rad combos out there! I’ve been able to use the TH in the past along with mouthpiece express to source parts for my builds, but I am having trouble finding new or used valve sections. Any suggestions?
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Ozzbo
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Joined: 16 Feb 2011
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Location: New York

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Around 15 yrs ago I acquired a very nice frankenhorn from the well known brass historian Richard Dundas.

It was silver and had an early Elkhart Bach ML valve section, a Calicchio #2 leadpipe and Calicchio #2 tuning bell. It was a nice player with plenty of zing and I used it for about 7yrs until I was offered a pretty sum for it.

Wonder whatever happened to it ??

Ozzy
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patdublc
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The most interesting one that I have had was put together for me by Chris Cromer -
Getzen Capri valve block
Blackburn leadpipe and tuning slide
Calicchio Z bell
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oliver king
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've an Olds Super valve section that now has a copy of a Committee leadpipe and bell, it uses original committee braces with an Akright tuning crook.

Up until a few days ago, my daily player has been a copy of a Bach Vindabona using an Akright leadpipe, tweaked ? tuning crook, Vito valve block and Kanstul (Besson) 'A' bell.

Both are great players! The first was built by Dick Akright and the newer one by Bryan Morgan both @ Best Instrument Repair.
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Last edited by oliver king on Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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KevinInGeorgia
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1960's F. Besson Bell
1980's Bach Valve Block and Slides
1990's Blackburn Tuning Slide and Leadpipe
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mafields627
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Frankenhorn that's a pretty good piece of brass. It's called the Teatro and was designed by Bruce Lee and assembled by Eclipse.

Kanstul 37 bell & 25 leadpipe
Getzen .459 valve block
Reversed leadpipe with single brace
Traditional waterkeys

It works really well with a Bob Reeves 42M mouthpiece.
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cgooding
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Location: Tallahassee, FL

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I currently play a horn I built last summer that started with a Getzen Capri valve block. I re-made the 1st and 3rd slides for fixed rings. The bell is a Harrelson #7, leadpipe is a Harrelson #7 with a receiver I made and the tuning slide is also Harrelson.

My current project started with an Olds Ambassador valve block to which I'm adding a Calicchio 3 bell. Leadpipe and tuning slide have yet to be decided upon.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never done anything in this direction but have been thinking of remodeling my Blesssing student trumpet to a C horn with flugelhorn bell.
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BGinNJ
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been interested in this idea, and used to read the threads about what people had done to Ambassadors. I wonder, though, how you know what parts are compatible? That is, without actually buying/scavenging a bunch of parts, taking dimensions, and hoping it fits together?
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THE BD
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BGinNJ wrote:
I've been interested in this idea, and used to read the threads about what people had done to Ambassadors. I wonder, though, how you know what parts are compatible? That is, without actually buying/scavenging a bunch of parts, taking dimensions, and hoping it fits together?


Most things are going to be compatible, the trumpet is not some major magical mystery in how it is built, although some combinations are going to be more effective than others. I think the trial and error to get the desired result may be part of the fun!

I've recently played an Olds Studio valve block with a Lawler bell and Blackburn leadpipe, that was a ton of fun!
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oliver king
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've an early Olds Special valve block and slides with a Kanstul #7 copper bell. There was some rot in the tuning crook and leadpipe. They were replaced with a Bel Canto #25 pipe and an Akright tuning crook. AMAZING!!!
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LB Bel Canto #59
Holton B47
Frankenhorn projects 1-5
Adams F1
Olds Super Tenor Trombone
Alesis QS8
B2MS3, B2GS3,
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trumpet56
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have several Frankenhorns.

1) I have a B&S E/Eb trumpet with a 4 valve bauerfeind valve block that I converted to a Bb with a Bach 43 leadpipe, and a Thein bell. I still can convert the trumpet into Eb/E with Bach bell and a Melk Eb 525 leadpipe.

2) I also have a C/Bb trumpet with melk C 525 leadpipe a Bach 238 HG bell and a B&S Bb set of slides.
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