Cleaning Valves

[fuzzyjon79]

I just purchased an old Bach 37 trumpet and am in the process of cleaning it. What is recommended for cleaning valves? Just soaking them in water? They are pretty nasty. Any chemicals?
_________________
J. Fowler
"It takes a big ole' sack of flour, to make a big ole' pan of biscuits!"

[jat]

My advice, given wholeheartedly:

Right now, more than any other moment in the time you'll have possession of this instrument, right now is THE time when you'll definitely do best by paying someone who knows what they are doing to chemically clean your horn. Someone else has been playing it before you. It probably sat rotting for some time. If there is ANY gunk in there, it means that they did not keep this horn clean. My opinion is that you owe it to the instrument, not to mention that you definitely owe it to yourself. It is not an expensive procedure.

Find someone with a lot of experience repairing professional trumpets. Have them thoroughly clean the horn, replace all felts and corks (anything porous), then clean this instrument often and thoroughly (not just wiping off the pistons or using a leadpipe swab...those are other good ideas, but they are not the same as cleaning your horn).

[fuzzyjon79]

Thanks. I plan on doing this as far as getting the horn cleaned thoroughly. I just gave it a bath, ran a snake through all the slides, greased the slides and oiled the valves. I am looking to send it to Charlie Melk after the first of the year for some good TLC.
_________________
J. Fowler
"It takes a big ole' sack of flour, to make a big ole' pan of biscuits!"

[Crazy Finn]

I was once told that soaking valves in vinegar is good. However, you have to be careful - and not do it for too long. Vinegar is a mild acid - so it's similar to the "chem clean" stuff the often use in shops. However, to be perfectly honest...

...I did this several years ago. My Yamaha started to have valve issues, so I tried it out on my old student cornet and it made the valves look great. So I did the same thing on my pro horn. It might have cleaned some stuff off of them, but it didn't improve the action. I've gotten it chem cleaned as well - which also didn't help. I'm not sure if the vinegar process helped or hindered the valve's deterioration (or more likely, didn't do much at all) but I'm simply putting this disclaimer out there.

Actually, when I get a new horn... err, a new used horn - I simply take it in to the shop to get it cleaned. I'm just too phobic of germs to do otherwise. I've gotten a few of my instruments "ultrasonically" cleaned, and I have to highly recommend that!

Sometimes ultrasonic cleaning can have an effect on older lacquer. If the technician doing it are good, then they will use it properly with a smaller likelihood of effecting it. Silver and gold, however, will not be effected in any way.

I took my Olds Ambassador in for such a cleaning, and not only did it look far better, it really played fantastic after I got it back. I'll note that time has made this basically a raw brass instrument, there was no lacquer remaining prior to this cleaning.
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LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn

[KingSilverSonic]

You can also put some toothpaste on your finger and rub on the valves. I have even used toothpaste as a mild abrasive to "lap" some sticky valves. Just be sure to wash thoroughly with warm water. Worked in all cases but one, and had to send that horn back to the factory.
_________________
Richard

Lawler C7
Burbank Benge C
Calicchio 1s/2
King Symphony 20 DB and Silver Sonic Cornet
Lawler flugelhorn
Member: Bugles Across America

[Albuquerque Duke]

[bspickler]

I was told by a horn manufacturer/customizer that Brasso will clean valves. I got some at Ace Hardware. Be careful not to get it on silver. The same person recommended Topol (the smokers) toothpaste.

Getting aggressive with any of these suggestions could cause more harm than good. And, I agree, be sure to thoroughly clean everything before assembling.
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Bill

[MattC]

[quote="Albuquerque Duke"]

[KingSilverSonic]

It would be my guess, as mentioned above, to use the white and not the gels. But, the toothpaste helped sticky valves in all cases except one.
_________________
Richard

Lawler C7
Burbank Benge C
Calicchio 1s/2
King Symphony 20 DB and Silver Sonic Cornet
Lawler flugelhorn
Member: Bugles Across America

[Craig Swartz]

Monel pistons? I use a bit of Flitz (grey) or Wenol ("pink"), rub lengthwise with a soft rag. It will remove the olive-brown staining that always seems to accompany Bach pistons after a while. The Monel is very hard and won't be affected by any of the abrasive quality of either compound. I'd keep it out of the casings, however, and flush it all off or it will just cause sticking problems later. I'm not sure the difference in the base formula of Monel, but I've never had the pistons on any of my Schilke horns stain like the Bachs. I guess Monel isn't necessarily Monel... Schilke has always had it right, IMO.

[Tootsall]

[Albuquerque Duke]

Tootsall wrote:

"So... what works for one person might not work for another; you'll have to find the oil that works for YOU and then just stick with it (bad pun)".

I've been using Blue Juice for it's (advertised) cleaning properties. I "think" it works as a cleaning agent - not sure. My valves respond well to it so I use it.

I'm hesitant to mess around with valves, so the toothpaste idea, while probably helpful, scares me a bit.

I will try the toothpaste technique (white, gritty) and hope/pray for the best!

[KingSilverSonic]

My recollection is that I got the toothpaste idea from a major manufacturer. I think it would be less abrasive than a laping compound - certainly not more abrasive. But, I have no direct knowledge here. And, I have been using Blue Juice with all of my horns for over 5 years now and am entirely happy.
_________________
Richard

Lawler C7
Burbank Benge C
Calicchio 1s/2
King Symphony 20 DB and Silver Sonic Cornet
Lawler flugelhorn
Member: Bugles Across America

[MattC]

[shofarguy]

[cheiden]

The few time I've done it toothpaste (not gel) with a soft rag and plenty of patience cleaned the stains from the valve's outer surfaces with no aparent damage. I use Flitz on the outside of my horn but never considered using it on the valves, hmmm. I concur with MattC about always rubbing vertically with as little rotation as possible. And make sure that you thoroughly clean out whatever abrasive you opt to use before reassembling the horn.

It's also possible that regular wiping of the valves and ports with a clean cloth will reduce the stains over time. If the valves aren't sticking this may be all you need to do.

After cleaning this horn up don't forget that it will almost certianly need new pads, a cheap fix that's frequently overlooked and it can make a big difference.

What confounds me is how to clean the crud that sometime accumulates in the valve ports.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[WildCat]

In regards to the general cleaning of valves, rather than self-honing processes, has anyone tried the new valve cleaning stuff from Warburton?:

http://warburton-usa.com/index.php/clean-stroke-valve-wash

Any reviews would be interesting to hear.
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Vince K.

[Gilligan]

Cleaning the crud that gathers in the ports between the valves is easy. I take a trumpet snake with a rubber coating over the metal part of the snake and bend the tip 90 degrees and gently reach up through the bottom of the valves into the ports and work out the crud. Some the vintage horns I've cleaned had so much build up the ports were half blocked. I'll leave the horn soaking in the tub over night with dawn dish detergent to soften everthing up so I don't need to use excessive force with the snake to work out the crud. This helps to protect the corner edges of the ports from damage. Then flush it with tons and tons of water.
_________________
Gill

[Tony Scodwell]

One third liquid Dawn dish detergent, two thirds vinegar mixed together. Make enough to soak the entire horn in a tray deep enough to cover everything. I would take everything apart first, slides, valves and soak all together for ten minutes or so. You'll see the ports in the valves brighten up and insides of the slides as well. A good brush with a snake is good at this time. The bath will get the crud off inside the horn and leave it clean as possible. Ten minutes should do it but longer won't hurt a thing. If you are still worried about the valve surfaces, hand polish with Colgate toothpaste, clean with lots of soap and water, oil and play the "Flight Of The Bumblebee" a few times. Personally, I periodically clean my valves and the insides of the casings with CRC Brakleen, a brake cleaner available at most auto parts stores, whenever I think valve action is getting sluggish. Be careful not to spray Brakleen on lacquered surfaces [for sure on older horns] as it "bites" into the lacquer and discolors it. After spraying with Brakleen, a rolled up, clean paper towel is pulled through each casing and valves are wiped dry with a clean paper towel as well. Brawny towels seem to be lint free for my use.

[VetPsychWars]