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jhatpro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002
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Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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 Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:48 pm Post subject: Wallace Adustable Cup Mute |
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I like the sound of the Wallace Adjustable Trumpet Mute but it is very heavy and the corks are not sufficient to keep it in place.
Amother one of my mutes, a very heavy copper one, has a rubber collar that keeps it solidly in the bell. Anyone know where I can get one of these collars, or is there another work around?
Thanks!
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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etc-etc
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 6187
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| Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Jim,
A piece of the inflatable part of a bicycle tire or some other rubbery material from arts & crafts stores, cut to shape. Wrap some paper around the mute and trace with a pencil. |
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jhatpro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10204
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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| Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks!
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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jazzjezz
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Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 108
Location: SE UK
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| Am I wrong in thinking that you wouldn’t want a “collar” seal with a cup mute? The air has to go somewhere - Harmon style mutes (typically with collar style corks) have a hole. Straight and cup mutes are sealed, the (typically) three corks leave a gap between the bell and the mute for air flow. |
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jhatpro
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Joined: 17 Mar 2002
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Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:38 am Post subject: |
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Hmmm. Never thought about that. Hey, I was an English major.
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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etc-etc
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 6187
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| jazzjezz wrote: | | Am I wrong in thinking that you wouldn’t want a “collar” seal with a cup mute? The air has to go somewhere - Harmon style mutes (typically with collar style corks) have a hole. Straight and cup mutes are sealed, the (typically) three corks leave a gap between the bell and the mute for air flow. |
One could glue the rubber on the surface of filed corks? |
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deleted_user_687c31b
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Joined: 03 Apr 1996
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| jazzjezz wrote: | | Am I wrong in thinking that you wouldn’t want a “collar” seal with a cup mute? The air has to go somewhere - Harmon style mutes (typically with collar style corks) have a hole. Straight and cup mutes are sealed, the (typically) three corks leave a gap between the bell and the mute for air flow. |
I'd say you're pretty much correct...practice mutes usually have the collar seal you mention but they are meant to totally dissolve your sound.
| etc-etc wrote: | | One could glue the rubber on the surface of filed corks? |
That might work. Other tricks I've seen players do is wet the cork (usually by licking it) or twisting the mute a bit while inserting it to give it better grip. |
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TKSop
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Joined: 23 Feb 2014
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Had one, sold it.
Sounds okay for a metal cup, tuning is good... But so are plenty of mutes, including several other adjustable metal cups (DW, H&B) that aren't nearly so problematic to use.
This on, the design is just awful - it's ungodly heavy fullstop, made worse by the bulk of the weight being right in the base.
That might make little difference in a tenor horn, baritone or euphonium mute, but in a cornet it's a pain and in a trumpet it's an absolute deal-breaker.
You'll see some in brass bands because they've bought a set (because the middle band ones are good and TBF the straight is excellent)... But I see no reason to want to persevere with it if you don't have to - I didn't, so on the bay it went. |
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TKSop
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| hibidogrulez wrote: | | jazzjezz wrote: | | Am I wrong in thinking that you wouldn’t want a “collar” seal with a cup mute? The air has to go somewhere - Harmon style mutes (typically with collar style corks) have a hole. Straight and cup mutes are sealed, the (typically) three corks leave a gap between the bell and the mute for air flow. |
I'd say you're pretty much correct...practice mutes usually have the collar seal you mention but they are meant to totally dissolve your sound.
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Not totally dissolve it, but drastically reduce it, if we're being pedantic.
And every one I've seen will either have a small hole or two either right down by the base or in the base or a channel through the "collar" of cork.
Either way, they're still not completely sealed, they'd be unplayable if they were. |
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benlewis
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Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 1011
Location: Memphis, TN
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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I've had good luck using Funky Foam© on both adjustable cups and harmon-style mutes. You can get precut sheet in various colors at Michael's. It has a self-stick adhesive back which, if your corks are in good condition, will last a pretty long time. If you really like it, you can cut new sheets and glue them on. I usually just use the self-stick. Plus, you can remove it without damage to your corks.
If you apply it right, you won't need to worry about a bubble mute popping out during a passage...
HTH
Ben |
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TKSop
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Joined: 23 Feb 2014
Posts: 1735
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| benlewis wrote: | I've had good luck using Funky Foam© on both adjustable cups and harmon-style mutes. You can get precut sheet in various colors at Michael's. It has a self-stick adhesive back which, if your corks are in good condition, will last a pretty long time. If you really like it, you can cut new sheets and glue them on. I usually just use the self-stick. Plus, you can remove it without damage to your corks.
If you apply it right, you won't need to worry about a bubble mute popping out during a passage...
HTH
Ben |
I'd urge a degree of caution with this approach... Increasing the height of the corks will change where the mute sits within the bell and this can be make or break for intonation.
By all means use foam, but you'll very rarely find adding it on top without any adjustment will work well.
http://mutemeister.com/Corks.html has as good a description as you'll find of how to get a mute set up correctly. |
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benlewis
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Joined: 21 Jan 2004
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Location: Memphis, TN
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:09 am Post subject: |
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TKSop,
The foam is very thin and compresses quite a bit. I've been using it for years and the national touring shows I've played with never had an issue with my intonation.
However, I am careful to adjust my mutes and have found no issues with neither harmon-style mutes nor adjustable cups. I have not used it on straight mutes because I find them to be more sensitive to intonation issues. Also, they seem less likely to seat poorly.
I totally agree with you; it is important to be aware that without (and sometimes regardless of) proper fitting, mutes will affect intonation. Until I bought the MuteMeister Showtone mute, I could never get a Solotone-style to work without pulling my tuning slide, especially the H&B. That made for some scary moments during shows!!!
HTH
Ben |
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TKSop
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Joined: 23 Feb 2014
Posts: 1735
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| benlewis wrote: | TKSop,
The foam is very thin and compresses quite a bit. I've been using it for years and the national touring shows I've played with never had an issue with my intonation.
However, I am careful to adjust my mutes and have found no issues with neither harmon-style mutes nor adjustable cups. I have not used it on straight mutes because I find them to be more sensitive to intonation issues. Also, they seem less likely to seat poorly.
I totally agree with you; it is important to be aware that without (and sometimes regardless of) proper fitting, mutes will affect intonation. Until I bought the MuteMeister Showtone mute, I could never get a Solotone-style to work without pulling my tuning slide, especially the H&B. That made for some scary moments during shows!!!
HTH
Ben |
TBH my comment was more for anyone else reading to be aware of the potential for intonation issues if you just add thickness - especially if it's particularly thick (some foam sheets are moreso than others).
In general, it's an issue too few players are aware of, I'm sure you'd agree. |
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benlewis
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Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 1011
Location: Memphis, TN
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:28 am Post subject: |
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We're totally on the same page!
Cheers! |
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