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Conn / Selmer Hard Times


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Flip Oakes
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:21 pm    Post subject: Conn / Selmer Hard Times Reply with quote

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/08/conn-selmer-maker-of-musical-instruments-lays-off-113-in-eastlake.html?fbclid=IwAR2vmO1ACDa53vUpwnW5nYM6lDKwWdGogofmLaZjZ3v0ApPX3jCy4Ta5QYY
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deleted_user_687c31b
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear that. It's never a good thing for businesses to have troubles beyond their control, but it's especially tough for music shops. Everyone'd want their favorites to stay afloat.

I hope your business is still going strong?
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Bflatman
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do not expect any of these kind of businesses to survive.

It is quite possible that in 3 years time the only instrument manufacturers in the world still trading will be chinese.

This not due to coronavirus it is due solely to government incompetence.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Bflatman, while I tend to agree with your last sentence, I firmly believe that there will be companies making and repairing instruments in three years. Especially the smaller makers with only a few (i.e. below about 10) employees seem to be going reasonably strong over here: loads of repairs, new developments etc. seem to come up. My go-to shops, both very small, tell me that they are doing good. I assign this to the fact that keeping a distance in such a small shop is much easier than in (any) large(er) factory-type setting. But it will sure be interesting to see how many medium to larger size companies will need to adapt.
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James Becker
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surprisingly, my work load has not lightened. Mind you, the great majority of retail and repair shops rely on school music programs. We do a fair amount but it’s not the lion’s share of our business. Having a back long of restoration work before the shelter in place order, I returned to a substantial amount of repairs, not to mention the seasonal wave during the summer months. It will be interesting going into the fall and winter as live music activities remain on hold.

Difficult times ahead for everyone in the performing arts.
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yourbrass
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting that the layoffs occurred on March 25 - that's not wasting any time waiting to see what happened, is it? We only locked down in CA on March 15.
I wonder if layoffs weren't in the works already.
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Croquethed
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

March 25...depending on how much of their material came from China, could have been supply chain issues. Thereafter compounded by our own lockdowns.
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adagiotrumpet
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bflatman wrote:
Do not expect any of these kind of businesses to survive.

It is quite possible that in 3 years time the only instrument manufacturers in the world still trading will be chinese.

This not due to coronavirus it is due solely to government incompetence.


It's always the government's fault. This had nothing to do with buying up smaller companies producing quality instruments and then running them so far into the ground that when there is a temporary setback like the pandemic, they don't have the resources to ride it out. Oh yeah, it's the fault of the Chinese too.

I mean if it wasn't "due solely to government incompetence" (by the way would that be Local, State, and/or Federal?), I might still be able to buy new original Benge trumpets, King trumpets, Conn trumpets, etc.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, in my opinion, this thread can provide some good discussion of these times as well as offering extemporaneous documentation of our current events.

I too have political opinions but I strongly recommend that existing political statements be self edited prior to the mods deciding to pull the thread.

Peace.
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khedger
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After seeing what Conn-Selmer did to the Benge line of horns, I don't have too much sympathy for them. After playing Benge for decades, I unwittingly bought a Conn-Selmer Benge and it was a total piece of sh**. They totally ruined the horn.....

keith
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Liberty Lips
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sincerely believe that the world came to an end in 2016, we're all dead, and this is hell.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nevermind
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adagiotrumpet
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khedger wrote:
After seeing what Conn-Selmer did to the Benge line of horns, I don't have too much sympathy for them. After playing Benge for decades, I unwittingly bought a Conn-Selmer Benge and it was a total piece of sh**. They totally ruined the horn.....

keith


Sympathy should go out to the workers who got laid off. It would be interesting to know how many in management were also laid off.

And without suggesting any cause and effect, isn't this the same Selmer that moved Tedd Waggoner over from Bach to the clarinet division for something like 20 years, during which time Bach's quality and reputation suffered? Only when he was finally brought back, was Bach's quality and reputation restored. Gee, who could have perdicted this?

But (sarcasm alert) in reference to an earlier post, it's the government's fault.
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yourbrass
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

adagiotrumpet wrote:
khedger wrote:
After seeing what Conn-Selmer did to the Benge line of horns, I don't have too much sympathy for them. After playing Benge for decades, I unwittingly bought a Conn-Selmer Benge and it was a total piece of sh**. They totally ruined the horn.....

keith


Sympathy should go out to the workers who got laid off. It would be interesting to know how many in management were also laid off.

And without suggesting any cause and effect, isn't this the same Selmer that moved Tedd Waggoner over from Bach to the clarinet division for something like 20 years, during which time Bach's quality and reputation suffered? Only when he was finally brought back, was Bach's quality and reputation restored. Gee, who could have perdicted this?

But (sarcasm alert) in reference to an earlier post, it's the government's fault.


The workers always take it in the neck. Factories don't just lay people off w/o a reason, and the pandemic excuse may be a convenient one that covered for what was already planned.
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yourbrass
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also wanted to say that Conn-Selmer is not entirely to blame for what happened to Benge. King Musical Instruments and then UMI owned the brand and the Eastlake, OH factory for a long time before Conn-Selmer was formed.
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adagiotrumpet
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yourbrass wrote:
Also wanted to say that Conn-Selmer is not entirely to blame for what happened to Benge. King Musical Instruments and then UMI owned the brand and the Eastlake, OH factory for a long time before Conn-Selmer was formed.


Good to know the sequence of events and that the demise of Benge cannot be attributed entirely to Conn-Selmer directly. However, once Conn-Selmer was in control, could they have started making original Benges again had they wanted to? Or was it at that point that Zig Kanstul had already acquired the original tooling?
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People have attempted to resurrect brands, including Benge, and buyers often are not too appreciative. Plus why would one want to add dozens of failed brands to their own successful offerings?
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adagiotrumpet wrote:
yourbrass wrote:
Also wanted to say that Conn-Selmer is not entirely to blame for what happened to Benge. King Musical Instruments and then UMI owned the brand and the Eastlake, OH factory for a long time before Conn-Selmer was formed.


Good to know the sequence of events and that the demise of Benge cannot be attributed entirely to Conn-Selmer directly. However, once Conn-Selmer was in control, could they have started making original Benges again had they wanted to? Or was it at that point that Zig Kanstul had already acquired the original tooling?


It is a mixed bag. By the time Conn-Selmer came into existence, Zig had owned the old Benge plant and most of the tooling for a long time. There had been "new Benge" tooling at Eastlake, but I dont know if it was still around by then. The Eastlake plant is not huge, and it has always been fully utilized. I don't think they had space for a lot of archiving.

(Plus, it was "new Benge" tooling and I think the emotional desire is for older) Let's keep our fingers crossed that the new new Benge out in KC will be everything that the historic materials and compilations of several masters' lifes' work going into it offer the potential of.)
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plankowner110
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conn-Selmer, Inc.

Do they have a professional Conn trumpet today? No
Do they have a professional Selmer trumpet today? No

C'est la vie!
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adagiotrumpet
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
People have attempted to resurrect brands, including Benge, and buyers often are not too appreciative. Plus why would one want to add dozens of failed brands to their own successful offerings?


1) BAC seems to think resurrecting at least two Benges has promise, and after playing them at NAMM, I would have to agree.

2) Other than Bach, which is definitely successful and justifiably so, what are their other successful offerings in regards to trumpets? And forget about dozens, I would settle for King and/or Conn.


Last edited by adagiotrumpet on Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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