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Amanarmz13
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Joined: 28 Sep 2020
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Location: New Mexico
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 Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:11 pm Post subject: Tension |
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I construct when I play in my neck. Does anyone have tips on relaxing or stretching?
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Steve A
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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My two cents:
If the neck tension is really the cause of the problem, it's probably not that hard to fix. In my experience, that's a big "if", but I'd try forming and embouchure without the trumpet, being careful to keep your tongue (an overlooked cause of neck tension, IMO) relaxed, and not to clench anything in your throat. Then, without trying to make anything happen, release air through your lips. If you can do that without tightening anything up (which will probably be hard, because you'll likely have a deeply ingrained habit of not staying loose), repeat the same thing with the trumpet on your lips, again not trying to make a sound, but just to release the air without any grabbing in your throat. If you can do that, and didn't accidentally get a trumpet sound already, repeat the same steps, but release the air with a bit more energy and compression (/support/whatever you want to call this), until you get a trumpet sound.
However, my experience has been that neck tension is more likely a symptom of a problem somewhere else (my money's on an under-performing embouchure), so trying to remove neck tension won't fix anything, or at least not very much, in that case. Once you find and fix the other thing, if the neck tension hasn't gone away, then try the above steps.  |
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JayKosta
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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Make your embouchure WITHOUT the trumpet or mouthpiece. and blow strongly. Try to feel if your throat is constricting because of how you move (or flex) your tongue, or how you position your jaw.
Perhaps you are trying to pull the corners of your mouth too far inwards.
Jay
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
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Bethmike
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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I am experiencing issues with my tongue. I choke off my air flow with the very back of the tongue (down in the throat) when i go up. I need to un-learn years of a bad habit. Any repetitive techniques to un-learn a bad habit and learn a new habit would be appreciated.
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deleted_user_687c31b
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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What worked for me was to shift my focus. I used to have a lot of tension when breathing and 'trying to relax my muscles' only made me focus on them more, which resulted in fighting the tension with other muscle tension. To shift my focus, I used Bill Adam's 'focus on the sound you want to make' technique and after a week or 2 I could play relaxed.
Kind of like how telling people not to think of a pink elephant makes them think of pink elephants, focusing on playing relaxed only tightens up the muscles more. Well, for me at least, ymmv. |
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Steve A
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Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| Bethmike wrote: | | I am experiencing issues with my tongue. I choke off my air flow with the very back of the tongue (down in the throat) when i go up. I need to un-learn years of a bad habit. Any repetitive techniques to un-learn a bad habit and learn a new habit would be appreciated. |
A couple of thoughts:
I've never had much luck trying *not* to do something, so I'd suggest actively trying to build a mental model of what you want to do. For me, when trying to change habits around setting up to play, I do a whole bunch of things automatically as I bring the instrument up into playing position and am not really aware of all of them in that moment, so I need to start building this habit without the instrument (as I described above).
If you find it's hard to find the feeling of a relaxed throat, I'd suggest borrowing some ideas from singers, who deal extensively with trying to relax much of the same musculature as us, and try moving around a bit. Specifically, the idea is that it's very difficult to keep a muscle tense when you're moving it, so try setting up to play, then moving your head around a bit, or even talking. Obviously you can't do some/all of those things while actually playing, but they might help to give you a physical memory to replace the old habit.
Also, for me, one of the biggest obstacles in trying to do this is trying to allow myself to fail. I know, it probably sounds kind of nuts, but I find it's really difficult to actually allow myself to do something that feels like it won't work without having my unconscious habits charge back in at the last second repeat exactly the thing I'm trying to avoid. Trying to deliberately fail (like, to allow air to come out with no trumpet sound) is surprisingly hard, but, for me, it's kind of an essential way to figure out how much of a given action I actually need. Those group trust exercises where you fall backwards and trust someone else to catch you come to mind - it feels like you're about to hurt yourself and it's out of control, but you can't really know what's behind you until you try.
I'd suggest trying to let yourself fail to make a sound by way of releasing air through your playing setup (minus the throat/tongue tension, of course) without the feeling that you must get a sound. You might surprise yourself by getting a sound (great!), and if not, at least you've explored a bit more of the playing system. You can then star trying to make adjustments until you manage to find an approach where you can get a sound without the tension. (For me, that's likely to come from some combination of these three - smaller aperture, more forward tongue position, and firmer embouchure.)
However, if your experience is like mine, the first step of not sabotaging your efforts to do something actually different will be really difficult, so you'll probably need to develop some strategies to overcome that first hurdle. Failing forward is the keyword here.
Hope that helps! |
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Billy B
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:29 am Post subject: |
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sing everything you play
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Playin4Fun
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Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 29
Location: Indianapolis
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| I struggle with tension and over-blowing. Steve A, can you please elaborate on your experience with the under-performing embouchure issue you mentioned? |
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Steve A
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| Playin4Fun wrote: | | I struggle with tension and over-blowing. Steve A, can you please elaborate on your experience with the under-performing embouchure issue you mentioned? |
Well, you'll get a lot of different views on this, some of which will disagree strongly with mine, so I'll tell you my thoughts briefly with the disclaimer that I'm not really interested in arguing about them, should anyone take issue with my views.
I struggled for ages with high range, flexibility, unfocused sound, and stamina, and no amount of listening, singing, or using more air seemed to make any difference for me. I traveled to New York to have a lesson with Peter Bond who showed me a different approach to playing than what I had previously been trying to apply.
His view (which I absolutely came to agree with) was essentially that I was trying to compensate for a poorly performing embouchure with a ton of air. It's like if my overall playing setup was a car with a very poorly functioning engine, which burned a ton of gas and still delivered severely limited performance and reliability. More gas was not the answer - improving the engine was.
He suggested a number of things for me including anchor tonguing and adjusting my jaw position/angle so that my lips met more squarely, both of which allowed me to play more easily, with better range, sound, stamina, etc. He also suggested that my (flabby) corners were not really supporting my overall playing setup, which I didn't understand at the time, and didn't have much luck trying to address until, years later, I started trying to work lip buzzing into my routine. Trying to emphasize being able to lip buzz quietly and with a minimum of air has helped me to figure this out to a degree. (That's ongoing.)
Some people get taught how to form an embouchure correctly from the start, or naturally happen to gravitate towards it over time. I was neither of those, so I've had to learn methodically as a professional adult. My view is that indirect teaching methods are ideal for a lot of things, but if you just simply don't know how to do something, and it's outside of your experience of how to play the instrument, visualizing a better sound is unlikely to solve your problems. (However, if you know even just a little bit of what you're trying to do, that's another story entirely.)
As far as where to go from here is concerned - I know Peter Bond teaches online, so I'd recommend him unreservedly. Similarly, Charlie Porter's instructions about lip buzzing have helped me a lot, so I'd suggest getting in touch with him, too.
Hope that helps, and best of luck! |
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JVL
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| Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:22 am Post subject: |
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I really agree with you Steve A
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scottfsmith
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:31 am Post subject: |
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Another +1 for what Steve A said.
Also it is hard to teach this stuff on your own, for me it took several lessons with Charlie Porter before I broke through to the other side.
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kalijah
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:28 am Post subject: |
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Steve A wrote:
| Quote: | | It's like if my overall playing setup was a car with a very poorly functioning engine, which burned a ton of gas and still delivered severely limited performance and reliability. More gas was not the answer - improving the engine was. |
This is a very good analogy. And the embouchure function is the engine of tone production. Air is ONLY the energy source. And, just as the best fuel for a car will not correct a poorly performing engine, air does not correct a poorly performing tone engine. Especially MORE air.
But the problem of the prevailing advice is that buzzing is the answer. Buzzing is inherently a high-effort activity, so it is really a Callisthenic exercise. As is lip-slurs and long tones, free-buzzing, etc. They have their place as such. But to really discover the key to efficient embouchure is to PLAY THE INSTRUMENT. You can truly discover efficient and effective embouchure (engine) by NOT doing calisthenics until these are corrected.
It takes FAR less embouchure effort to play the instrument than it does do buzz the mouthpiece. And free-buzzing requires a VERY large amount of embouchure effort as compared to playing the instrument. And one cannot exploit the mouthpiece resonance until they can first improve the efficiency of simply playing a tone on the instrument. |
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scottfsmith
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Free buzzing is helpful precisely because it is more difficult: it is much less forgiving of sloppy technique and helps zero in on a better embouchure for when the horn is on your face. You do need to work on transferring the free buzz to the horn by e.g. sticking the horn on your face in the middle of a free buzz, the whole point is for it to transfer over.
That said, I don't think buzzing is "the" answer, it is just one of many good techniques to help you zero in on proper embouchure form.
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kalijah
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You do need to work on transferring the free buzz to the horn by e.g. sticking the horn on your face in the middle of a free buzz, the whole point is for it to transfer over. |
This would be one of the worst practice techniques I could imagine. A guaranteed path to an inefficient embouchure and a poor tone.
No, the "point" is not to use the same effort for a note as to free buzz that same note. Unless you are trying to destroy efficient embouchure habits. |
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JayKosta
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| scottfsmith wrote: | Free buzzing is helpful ... and helps zero in on a better embouchure for when the horn is on your face. You do need to work on transferring the free buzz to the horn by e.g. sticking the horn on your face in the middle of a free buzz, the whole point is for it to transfer over.
... |
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Are you saying that the embouchure shape (specifically lip position) for 'free buzzing' should be used for actual playing?
Jay
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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kalijah
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | are you saying that the embouchure shape (specifically lip position) for 'free buzzing' should be used for actual playing? |
Exactly, Jay. Not to mention the same effort. |
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scottfsmith
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| kalijah wrote: |
This would be one of the worst practice techniques I could imagine. A guaranteed path to an inefficient embouchure and a poor tone.
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.. it had the exact opposite effect for me, contradicting your claim.
| Quote: |
No, the "point" is not to use the same effort for a note as to free buzz that same note. Unless you are trying to destroy efficient embouchure habits. |
You don't use the same effort, it takes more effort to free buzz. When you put the horn on the buzz it gets easier due to the support.
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Jerry Freedman
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:56 am Post subject: |
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Any technique, be it free buzzing, mouthpiece buzzing, pedals, pencil exercise, squeakers work for some players, neutral for others and disasterous for others. For instance, Rienhardt forbids pedals while pedals are part of the core to Gordon's teaching. Both produce outstanding players and, if you have been on trumpet herald long enough has seen plenty of "I studied the <> method and got nowhere, until I moved to <>
Bottom line is that all embouchures are different and no method works for everyone. Absolute statements can be useless. A good teacher ( plenty no on line or on your tube) can help or just pure pragmatism |
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