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Best slotting mouthpieces



 
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Shaker
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:53 pm    Post subject: Best slotting mouthpieces Reply with quote

I've been playing a Yamaha 14a4a for commercial playing for several years, and get along well with the cup size/depth. However, recently I'm looking into something of the same size that does a little better job of slotting notes in the upper register (high G to double G).

In your experience, which mouthpiece brands/types have helped the most with slotting upper register notes?
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ruotjoh
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the gap first. It has more to do with slotting than the mouthpiece. If 14a4a works for you then stick with it.
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Shaker
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like Stomvi does a lot of work with the gap aspect. May look into that. I've seen mention that the Monette mouthpieces have notoriously small gaps, but may not fit every horn.

I should mention, I'm not looking for some massive leap in improvement. I just figure there might be something out there that helps a bit. And, hey, I'll take all the help I can get!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:57 am    Post subject: Denis Wick 4 X trumpet mouthpiece Reply with quote

The Denis Wick 4 X is advertised as having tremendous projection in the high register. Comes silver, gold, regular and heavytop versions. I have the silver Wick Heavytop 4 X trumpet mouthpiece. The mouthpiece has a cushion rim and is a V type backbone. The rim takes awhile to get used to, but it does make the high notes easier.
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bach_again
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:04 am    Post subject: Re: Best slotting mouthpieces Reply with quote

Shaker wrote:
I've been playing a Yamaha 14a4a for commercial playing for several years, and get along well with the cup size/depth. However, recently I'm looking into something of the same size that does a little better job of slotting notes in the upper register (high G to double G).

In your experience, which mouthpiece brands/types have helped the most with slotting upper register notes?


I like the way GR slot. It's personal tho, usually the answer is shedding, I find.

Best,
Mike
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cgaiii
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I understand, relationship of the mouthpiece and the horn have more to do with slotting than the mouthpiece itself. Next, I think it is the horn. The general principle is that the narrower the gap between the end of the mouthpiece and the venturi of the trumpet, the looser the slotting will be. However, this seems to vary a bit from horn to horn. I have two ways of experimenting on this with various trumpets. 1. I have a set of Harrelson shims. These are placed in the receiver to change the size of the gap. These require no alteration to either mouthpiece or horn and you just remove the shim to go back. 2. I have Jim New Gap Modulator. Your mouthpiece has be machined for this and you can use it to vary the gap.
The gap that gives you the slotting you like best will vary from horn to horn. If you are playing a Yamaha horn with your Yamaha mouthpiece, it might be a useful exercise. I have found that my Yamaha horns have a sweet spot in the gap for playability. Lou Finch put me onto this and there is a fairly lengthy discussion of the whole process in another thread.
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=151512&highlight=gap+modulator

I think some horns slot harder (more solidly) than others in general, some less, but this can be adjusted to some extent using the gap. I unfortunately do not own enough trumpets to totally confirm this. Some horns appear to be more gap sensitive than others. YMMV.
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Denny Schreffler
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Best slotting mouthpieces Reply with quote

Shaker wrote:
I've been playing a Yamaha 14a4a for commercial playing for several years, and get along well with the cup size/depth. However, recently I'm looking into something of the same size that does a little better job of slotting notes in the upper register (high G to double G).

In your experience, which mouthpiece brands/types have helped the most with slotting upper register notes?


As mentioned by others, my understanding (and experience) is that gap (and BB end taper) are the biggest determiners of slotting.

I much prefer loose slots, although, I've had a horn that was almost too slippery "up there." Much easier and lots more options (room for adjustments) if you know where you want to go and how to get there.

If you're playing in commercial settings, try a slot-locking horn from a colleague -- I'm sure that one of them will have something "tight like that," with your mpc. You might find narrow slotting less desirable than you might have thought.

-Denny
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hibidogrulez
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My personal experiences with AR mouthpieces was that they all slotted very well, regardless of which cup I used. If that works the same for you, I cannot tell though.
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delano
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really doubt that slotting is a quality of mouthpieces.
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hibidogrulez
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delano wrote:
I really doubt that slotting is a quality of mouthpieces.

Hence the disclaimer. I don't know *why* the AR mouthpieces slot so well for me (maybe it has something to do with their length) but they do. They had that same effect for different trumpets too, so it's not neccesarily a gap thing. It could be the efficient blow that makes it easier to adjust pitch.

Or maybe it is and I'm just weird.
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darksmoke
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was looking to try some new MPs, chiefly the Bach Commercial series, at my local music store awhile back. After trying all they had I walked out the door after an hour with my 5C Megatone as they didn't have any MV Commercials. Played it further when I got home and it seemed just as breezy to play around on as it had at the store. Middle register was effortless and low notes came out heftier with more core.
I play on Bach's lightest model made thus far so I imagine it's the standard balancing act between MP and horn being put to practice here. Except this time involving the aspect of mass between the two instead of diameter/ bore size. I am unsure of what my gap is on any piece, I just know this one works especially well for slotting/ playability for me and my setup.
Adding the Bob Reeves Receiver Ring adds even more security- bends and the like are noticeably harder to accomplish well.
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Shaker
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I play a 37R, and although the model number doesn't seem to reflect it, it is definitely lighter than most other Bachs I have played. I've messed around on a friend's Yamaha Xeno, which feels a bit heavier, and found that it slots much better. My 37 feels loosey goosey in comparison. Overall, I didn't care for the feel of the Yamaha for other unrelated reasons, but I've been trying to get that sort of slotting (or as close as I can get) on my own horn. I'm sure there are many factors at play, but like I say, I'm just trying to get closer to the setup that works best for me.

I will consider your setup darksmoke, as your situation seems to be strikingly similar to what I'm dealing with currently. Thank you!
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Lionel
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is the "a4a" feature that can make slotting tricky. As all of these pieces, from the 5a4a up to your 14a4a have high alpha angles. These great for bending tones or performing glisses and doits. However they can make slotting tricky.

To offset some of this I'd open that "a" type throat/back-bore up to somewhere around a #23 to a "24" drill bit. Best to have this modification done professionally.
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Shaker
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Lionel, I will consider this too. I'm lucky to live in the same town as the Pickett Brass folks, so I'm sure they could fix me up right.
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trumpetera
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaker wrote:
Interesting. I play a 37R, and although the model number doesn't seem to reflect it, it is definitely lighter than most other Bachs I have played. I've messed around on a friend's Yamaha Xeno, which feels a bit heavier, and found that it slots much better. My 37 feels loosey goosey in comparison. Overall, I didn't care for the feel of the Yamaha for other unrelated reasons, but I've been trying to get that sort of slotting (or as close as I can get) on my own horn. I'm sure there are many factors at play, but like I say, I'm just trying to get closer to the setup that works best for me.

I will consider your setup darksmoke, as your situation seems to be strikingly similar to what I'm dealing with currently. Thank you!


Bach's reversed models feature lightweight bodies...
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snichols
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with those citing gap.

A free way to get a very preliminary sense is to put a wrap of scotch tape around your mouthpiece shank, thereby increasing the gap slightly. You can try adding multiple layers to exaggerate the effect and see if it's something you want to pursue. If you still want to pursue the idea and spend the money, just buy a second 14a4a and have it converted to take Reeves sleeves and experiment from there.

Could also try a cup with a bit more bowl shape, instead of V/funnel.
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PMonteiro
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: Best slotting mouthpieces Reply with quote

Lionel wrote:
It is the "a4a" feature that can make slotting tricky. As all of these pieces, from the 5a4a up to your 14a4a have high alpha angles.


I'm under the impression that the backbore has more to do with it. I have a Bach 3CW with an extremely high alpha angle and while it doesn't slot perfectly, it's not as bad as the 14a4a.

Shaker wrote:
I'm looking into something of the same size that does a little better job of slotting notes in the upper register (high G to double G).


My experience with the Yamaha 14a4a is that it's hard to control in this range. It's good for screaming long notes but playing technical passages becomes a challenge. It's satisfactory in the low and mid registers though.

delano wrote:
I really doubt that slotting is a quality of mouthpieces


Agreed. While the mouthpiece can affect it, the horn provides the greatest influence in slotting (or lack thereof). Using the same mouthpiece, some of my horns slot great while others are all over the place. In my experience, moving braces has had a greater effect on slotting than any mouthpiece.
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Turkle
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might have some success trying heavier blank mouthpieces. Megatone, etc. Some prefer them as they can sometimes give a denser sound with slightly better slotting, if they work for you.

To me, they feel like blowing into a brick wall. But they work for some people!

Good luck.
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