Playing in with a rock band?

HaveTrumpetWillTravel · Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:23 pm Post subject: Playing in with a rock band?

There's a guy looking to start a band (I think he's a guitar player just out of undergrad). He's wanting to play original pieces he wrote in local venues. He sent me recorded versions of them but not written music, so I'm figuring these are are things he's written aurally. He's trying to get a group together to play them in local clubs (very plausible here, where there are open mics and also lots of little bands made up of foreigners).

Any tips on something like this? I'd imagine there's the typical keyboard, bass, drums type combo. The tracks he sent me are mostly instrumental and have an easy listening/mellow vibe.

On some of the songs there's a rhythm that repeats, so I'd imagine I want to try to transcribe and practice that, right? Wondering if flugelhorn might be a better choice than trumpet since it can kind of noodle in the background. Open to any advice.

deleted_user_687c31b · New Member Joined: 03 Apr 1996 Posts: 0

Sounds like a cool thing to try.

I agree that transcribing things would be very helpful...it'll save you time when memorizing it. You could always ask the guy if he has anything on paper...even a chord scheme could be helpful while you're learning to play his music. You can play it without sheet music on stage, but when practicing at home, if notes help...why not right?

As for the trumpet vs flugelhorn...there's bound to be some practice sessions before you go on stage right, so you could bring both and see what works best.

How much room do you have to improvise? Maybe he doesn't need you to play everything exactly as he's imagined it before, but if he does, it's likely that he does have some form of written music for you.

All in all it seems like good experience and a fun thing to do. Best of luck if you decide to go for it!

HaveTrumpetWillTravel · Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:03 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the encouragement. I have a double case so maybe I'll bring them both the first day.

I'm excited to try it, even if it doesn't go or I end up not being a great fit. The organizer said he'll send chord charts--that would be a big help. I heard one sax solo on a song, so I imagine I might have something like that.

Bflatman · Heavyweight Member Joined: 01 Nov 2016 Posts: 720

Some difficult questions need answering.

What does success look like to you is it commercial success building a career building a fan base getting callbacks getting a recording contract.

I am going to talk about your approach to a performance and the set you choose.

There must always be a balance between commercialism and artistic freedom.

Beatnik Hippy Freejazz noodling and unknown melodies have their audience but it is not a wide or a big one.

Will you be happy with commercial failure and artistic success or do you want callbacks and commercial success.

Standards that audiences know are the key to commercial success unless you have your audience already pinned down and you know they love what you do.

My own approach is a bunch of standards with a sprinkling of original works.

I have built a following and a fanbase with this approach. It works.

When you know your original works are capturing the audiences then you can dump the standards and concentrate on the original works.

In the Blues brothers movie the band met an aggressive audience and they charmed them with the standards that the audience loved.

A 50 / 50 mix of standards and original works may be a good start.

With performing live you only get one chance to earn a callback. They always want me back.

The audiences already know standards so you can trade on their love of the standards they know and they will cut you some slack if you dont play perfectly what they already know.

If they dont recognise the piece being played an audience can feel lost and unappreciative.

If the original work is a great work and it is played really well they will love it anyway, but when you guys start out you may need to help the audience out a bit by playing a few familiar pieces.

You never really know what an audience wants unless they are a known targeted audience like a blues club or a jazz club or a folk club.

I appeared in a drinking club and all night long it was standards requests and it was all improv with lots of errors from me but they loved every moment of it. It was a great night. Standards easily delver audience satisfaction.

A large number of audience members ask me to play 3 blind mice, old macdonald had a farm, rap, house, garage, and techno. You may need to win over some difficult audiences.

My experience is you dont need to play at the highest level if you play a familiar piece but if you play an unfamiliar piece you do.

Capture the audiences attention with a familiar melody then you can capture their hearts with a great original work. If you can do this then they will love you and they will love everything you do.
_________________
Conn 80a Cornet
Boosey & Hawkes Emperor Trumpet
Olds Fullerton Special Trumpet
Selmer Invicta Trumpet
Yamaha YCR 2330II Cornet
Selmer Student Trumpet
Bohland and Fuchs peashooter Trumpet
Boosey and Hawkes Regent Cornet
Lark M4045 Cornet

Croquethed · Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:32 am Post subject:

If it's a rock band there may be a lot of blues underneath.

kehaulani · Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:01 pm Post subject:

Know your F# and B cold.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

khedger · Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Playing in with a rock band?

Turkle · Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:21 pm Post subject:

From years of experience playing with loud rock / funk / afrobeat bands:

Wear earplugs. No excuses. Rock musicians will show you absolutely no mercy and you can forget about a decent monitor mix. Learn to play with plugs in, it only takes a few practice sessions to get it, and you'll be very very glad you did.

Good luck!
_________________
Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.

Brassnose · Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:33 pm Post subject:

What Turkle said. I have good, professional ear protection and this helps. Also the plugs are like your personal monitors because you hear yourself in your head. Takes a little time to get used to.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 KÃ¼hnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C ðŸ˜Ž
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

khedger · Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:27 am Post subject:

khedger · Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:28 am Post subject:

delano · Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:57 am Post subject:

HaveTrumpetWillTravel · Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:13 am Post subject:

Hey, thanks everyone for the advice! Grateful for the whole mix of suggestions. I brought earplugs with me, worked on my chords, polished up my F# and B, etc.

I think this is a guy who publishes his work to soundcloud and youtube. The people dynamics are always entertaining. They changed the location twice and then complained that the drummer and keyboard player flaked on them

It's okay--they were super nice guys and they tolerated my playing (mostly longtones and little melodic elements).

If I can work on my tonematching and solos I'll be extremely happy. In my experience there are about a dozen little bands all forming and re-forming, so I'm hoping eventually I can find my way into the playing circuit. Thanks again for the advice on getting going.

Voltrane · Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:54 am Post subject:

Turkle · Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:49 am Post subject:

plp · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:50 pm Post subject:

plp · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:57 pm Post subject:

plp · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:08 pm Post subject:

One other thing. My arsenal consists of a cornet, trumpet, and flugelhorn. In a small, hot room go with the cornet and flugel, unless you have a really smoking chart that needs to be loud and proud.

A Harmon mute can be your best friend, or your worst enemy, you are not Miles, don't try to be. I've heard it done wrong more than I've heard it done right, and some of the wrong times were hearing recordings of live gigs, and I was the culprit.

Woodshed effects, growls, half valving, flutter tonguing, etc. The lead/solo trumpet in our group is a master at lip trills, does this thing where he is doing a fingered half step trill, then the lips take over and he is widening the trill until he is trilling a fifth interval, then brings it back in, all in 4 beats. You can see the audience reaction when he does it. Find your special things and master them.
_________________
Since all other motives—fame, money, power, even honor—are thrown out the window the moment I pick up that instrument..... I play because I love doing it, even when the results are disappointing. In short, I do it to do it.” Wayne Booth

HaveTrumpetWillTravel · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:23 pm Post subject:

Thanks everyone! One of my main questions on the practice was when to play, whether to be a background harmonic element, whether to rif in the pauses, and how to construct the melody when all I really had was a list of chords. I could definitely see cornet/flugelhorn being better for blending with a band.

I always say that for me trumpet is three hobbies in one: the playing, the music appreciation, and the gear. I don't know if I'm up to/able to develop this type of playing long term, but I'm having fun with it.

Brassnose · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:07 pm Post subject:

One more thing: donâ€™t get carried away by the loudness of the band. My teacher once said that he believes the horns in Tower of Power or similar horn sections rarely go over a solid mf. The rest is done by the sound guys.

To account for the poor sound guys I always stand back about a yard from the micro during sound check. During the gig I can then move closer to really be heard.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 KÃ¼hnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C ðŸ˜Ž
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier