Most Influential Orchestral Player?

[Steve A]

A bit of a discussion question - I've been thinking recently about who has been the most influential orchestral player on sound, style, and overall musical direction. On the one hand, there's an obvious argument to be made for Herseth having had an enormous influence on how trumpet players want to sound, through his fantastic playing and extensive recording catalog. However, to the best of my knowledge, he taught relatively little and relatively little of his views on how to play and how to learn have entered our standard pedagogical literature.

William Vacchiano also was a fantastic player, also recorded everything many times, and while he's less often held up as a playing model today (regrettably so), he also taught generations of highly successful players, who in turn, went on to be influential teachers. (Thomas Stevens, among many others, comes to mind.)

Phil Smith similarly meets many of those criteria, and I'll bet that his Orchestral Excerpts recording has had a huge impact on how people play standard excerpts.

Vincent Cichowicz isn't as well known as a player, given that 2nd players are less prominent, and that he stopped playing relatively early, but he's certainly cast an incredibly long shadow through his teaching.

Alternatively, looking at this from a different example, I understand that relatively early figures in the 20th century like Georges Mager were a major force in the development of modern orchestral sound concepts (depending on when we declare things to be modern).

Thoughts?

[trumpet_cop]

I'm pleased to be the first one to respond.

Other players who were big in continuing to shape and influence the modern (American at least) orchestral sound would definitely be Jim Thompson during his Montreal and Atlanta days, and now includes the likes of Tom Hooten, Mark Inouye, and many others.
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[LaTrompeta]

No question here. Herseth.

It's not just whether he "taught" students. He influenced every aspect of brass playing and is largely to "blame" for modern classical trumpet playing. Ask just about any orchestral player and they'd probably agree.
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[Vin DiBona]

Virtually every major orchestral player will say Herseth.
Many greats studied with Cichowitz and others with Jacobs.
They, more than others, shaped the sound and raised the bar for orchestral players.
Here is Herseth in 1951 on his 7B or 7C. The sound is stunning for 1951 and it is obvious his sound was immediately different than anyone else's at this time. I am not demeaning the outstanding players of that era, yet this and other early Kubelik recordings on Mercury showed just how great his sound was even on "small" equipment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUlm16jNuD4
R. Tomasek

[Shark01]

How about great orchestral players who had great influence in equipment design?

Vincent Bach
Renold Schilke

[kehaulani]

Could we please qualify the statement that "virtually every major player", etc?
There's a whole other world of orchestral playing (and older) across the pond.
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[Gregory Gilmore]

Harry Glantz.

[mhenrikse]

A lot of influence probably comes from listening and this can be generational.

Vacchiano's dark sound and popularizing the use of trumpets other than Bb and C was important. Bernstein's NY Phil CDs were abundant and available.

I think there was a period of time when every aspiring orchestra player idolized Phil Smith; listening to his CDs and imitating.

[trumpet_cop]

I've got to be honest here; Vacchiano's playing is not as impressive as others and I am aware of several folks in the community who are also not fans. This compared to Herseth recordings from the same era? Not even a comparison.

Too bad more fulltime pros arent here to actually tell us who they were inspired by.
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[Irving]

Here is an example of Vacchiano playing Copland's An Outdoor Overture, live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT_QBOk_dws

[Daniel Barenboim]

Nobody will ever have the amount of years that Herseth put in but Phil Smith was a more refined version.

Flame away,

DB

[Robert1]

Adolph Herseth

[Vin DiBona]

Players across the pond were very aware of Adolph Herseth. All you have to do is find the right websites and music magazines and you will see his influence in the entire world. He took only a handful of players as students and if you did not meet his high standards, your lessons ended.
There have been numerous ITG articles associated with him and his influences.
Over the years, we've witnessed many great principal trumpet players and there are many great ones today.
He changed everything, from sound to basic equipment and raised the bar to the level principal (indeed all orchestral trumpet players) must reach.
R. Tomasek

[wilder]

[wilder]

[wilder]

[wilder]

[bike&ed]

In the UK I imagine many would see Maurice Murphy in a similar position as Herseth. From my limited perspective, I think of them as “twin towers” on opposite sides of the Atlantic...