No sound just air question

BatmansTrumpet · New Member Joined: 09 Oct 2020 Posts: 5

Hello,

I am new to trumpet. I was looking to get a horn to try out playing.

I used this video to select a student horn -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bBaZT4tEko&t

I went with the cheapest one there—the TR 200.

I watched some beginner videos before I got it.

I have never spoken to anyone who played a horn before. I played a tin whistle in school and I get that makes a sound because of the fipple part that produces the whistling noise.

The first time I blew into the horn I just got the hollow sound of air going through. So I thought maybe there was something wrong and spent about an hour learning about valves and clicking them into place. So I don't think air is blocked. I then went reading more about learning to buzz and lip placement. The basics of buzzing.

So I guess I am surprised in a way that my horn makes no sound when you blow into it. Just air. Not even a beep. So if what I am reading is correct then it's all in the buzzing basics of the body, lips, and mouthpiece interaction and the rest of the instrument just amplifying that sound and not adding anything to it? I guess that amplified sound gets manipulated by the features of the instrument by pressing the valves and using the slides?

So I just want to be sure by asking that the trumpet should just sound like air going through with no trumpet horn sound at all unless I buzz a bit with my lips/body? That it's something like 99% all that interaction and without it, the trumpet is just a complex tubed air vent that doesn't make a sound except just air passing through?

I hope I explained myself okay. I just don't want to find out that my budget trumpet was actually non-functional from day #1 and should have gotten something better for learning on.

Thanks for reading.

wilder · Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:12 pm Post subject:

You guessed it. jw

etc-etc · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6187

Play a continuous drone Bb in-staff (466.164 Hz) using Audacity sinewave tone generator. Try to sound it on the mouthpiece, and make it in tune with the drone. Continuing to play the note, add the trumpet (no valves) to the mouthpiece. The same note will sound, but much stronger and prettier.

JayKosta · Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:59 pm Post subject:

You are correct, with brass instruments (trumpet, tuba, trombone, french horn, etc, - but metal clarinets and saxophones NOT included), do not make sound by just blowing into them.

The player makes the sound by lip 'buzzing' - and the 'buzz' must be at the pitch of the desired note.
So you need to 'buzz your lips at the desired pitch' AND use the correct valve combination on the trumpet.

On trumpet a few of the easiest notes are these:

Trumpet B in the staff - it's played with the 2nd valve DOWN - the pitch of this note is the same as the 'dial tone' on a typical telephone (produce that pitch with your lip buzz into the mouthpiece).
The pitch of the note is the same as piano A (above piano middle C) in the staff (called 'concert A').

Trumpet G in the staff - played with no valves down, and is the pitch of an F above middle C played on the piano.

Trumpet C (called low C) below the staff - played with no valves down, and is the pitch of Bb below middle C played on the piano.

For now don't worry about 'piano pitch' compared to 'trumpet pitch' - just learn to play a note or 2 on the trumpet. Then use the trumpet fingering chart to know what valves for other notes. AND you have to adjust the pitch of your lip buzz to the desired pitch. Think how the pitch changes when singing DO - RE - MI - FA - SO - LA - TI - DO

See here - for good beginning trumpet videos , and a pdf file for the instructions.
https://www.uek12.org/TrumpetBookVideos.aspx

Later, you can read here -
http://users.hancock.net/jkosta/Embouchure_Basic_Concepts.docx
for more detailed info about using your breath and lips to make the pitches.

And YES, you need to start with a correct understanding of the basics of trumpet playing. Find someone who can get you started correctly, or you are likely to make many mistakes and develop bad habits (that seem to work, for a while) but which will hurt you later.

Jay
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

kalijah · Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:28 pm Post subject:

Do not buzz the lips without the full instrument.

BatmansTrumpet · New Member Joined: 09 Oct 2020 Posts: 5

This has all been very helpful. Thank you to everybody who replied.

gwood66 · Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:25 pm Post subject:

I would read the second part of this article. I gives a good explanation of how the trumpet works. As stated in the article, I would not recommend buzzing your lips to make a sound on the trumpet. You will be better off in the long run.

https://mouthpieceonline.com/trumpet-artist-profile-allen-vizzutti/

Another Article that might help:

http://trumpetlessons.blogspot.com/2005/10/sound-production.html

kehaulani · Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:58 pm Post subject:

kalijah · Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:23 pm Post subject:

Yes. Play the instrument.

BatmansTrumpet · New Member Joined: 09 Oct 2020 Posts: 5

Kalijah's method is actually quite helpful to me as a beginner.

I can see why using the instrument is important because when I remove the instrument it is just noiseless air coming from my embouchure through the mouthpiece until I put the instrument back on. That noiseless air coming from my embouchure could have been functional or non-functional and I don't know until I add the instrument. So mouthpiece-alone can't tell me if I am doing it right or not.

I get that mouthpiece alone practice has its place, but for a total beginner, I can also see why adding the instrument to know you're getting it right is pretty much essential if you have no one to show you how to do it. If you already know how to do it then it seems the mouthpiece-alone method can also do it's stuff but it's the adding of the instrument that got me my first proper trumpet sound. Loud, clear, and functional just like hearing it from a band on my low-budget entry-level trumpet. I can't play and I fail to produce the sound but when it works, it works as I hoped it would sound and that's what I wanted.

Thank Jesus for this forum or I would have given up as quickly as I started.

Now to keep practicing...

kalijah · Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:38 am Post subject:

JayKosta · Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:19 am Post subject:

Andy Del · Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:27 am Post subject:

I have taught literally dozens adults picking up the trumpet - almost all after they had tried to play with various levels of 'unsuccess'.

With some lessons, most showed distinct improvement. My most recent adult student - a professional XXXXXX hit by Covid, has gone from a teeny squeak to a full bodied sound in 3 weeks. He is intelligent, very well read on trumpet playing, and completely at sea when it comes to playing.

So - get a trumpet teacher to help you. You do not kn ow what you don't know, and none of us (at all) have any idea of what your next step should be, based on your previous attempts.

cheers

Andy
_________________
so many horns, so few good notes...

gwood66 · Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:19 am Post subject:

As a comeback player, I can echo Andy's advice.

Although I had taken lesson while in HS, I had a lot of misconceptions about how to play the trumpet and practice correctly. The two ways that you can overcome this is to become a student of how to play the trumpet and take a few lessons from a trusted teacher. I screwed around for several months not making any progress and reinforcing poor habits before I wised up and sought out a teacher. The one pleasantly surprising thing about the trumpet community is that professional quality players/instructors are accessible and willing to provide lessons.

Hope you get everything sorted out one way or another. Good luck!
_________________
Gary Wood (comeback player with no street cred)

GR 66M/66MS/66**
Bach Strad 37
Getzen 3052
Yamaha 6345

Funknfritter · Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: No sound just air question

jondrowjf@gmail.com · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jul 2016 Posts: 667

Batmanstrumpet
Welcome to the forum. I agree with the previous posters about finding a instructor.
When you bought the trumpet, did you buy mouthpiece, valve brush and snake? Also valve oil and slide grease? Do you know how to maintain , clean, oil your valves and grease you slides? Have you given it a bath yet?
As a buyer of many many used trumpets, I noticed many previous owners didn't know how to take care of their trumpets or mouthpieces.
_________________
Jupiter 520 M shepherds crook
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold short shank mouthpiece
Getzen 4 B short shank mouthpiece
Vincent Bach 5 B short shank mouthpiece

wilder · Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:19 am Post subject:

jondrowjf@gmail.com · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jul 2016 Posts: 667

Batmantrumpet
Muscle memory is important, whether it is learning the trumpet, skiing, scoring in hockey. It is extremely hard to get rid of improper training. Learn from a instructor, that plays trumpet.
_________________
Jupiter 520 M shepherds crook
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold short shank mouthpiece
Getzen 4 B short shank mouthpiece
Vincent Bach 5 B short shank mouthpiece

BatmansTrumpet · New Member Joined: 09 Oct 2020 Posts: 5

jondrowjf@gmail.com · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jul 2016 Posts: 667

Batmantrumpet
My mistake. Corrected my previous entry. Not familiar with that brand I must have been low of caffeine. Anyway you bought a decent student trumpet. How does it play?
_________________
Jupiter 520 M shepherds crook
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold short shank mouthpiece
Getzen 4 B short shank mouthpiece
Vincent Bach 5 B short shank mouthpiece