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Mouthpiece Change?



 
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Rvick82
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Joined: 03 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:00 am    Post subject: Mouthpiece Change? Reply with quote

Back story:

I am a comeback player that has been practicing/playing consistently for the last 6 months. These last 6 months, I have been working through the Total Range book by Charles Peters to help refocus my chops (consistently, every day). As I am expanding my upper and lower register, I have been noticing some roadblocks. The pedal tones are coming pretty easy but I have hit a roadblock in my upper register. I can play up to an Eb above high C easily and consistently everyday and can do the same up to F on the vast majority of days. However, F# and G above high C are just not coming easily on my normal mouthpiece. I am playing a Monette B2S3 that I have had since 2007. When I switch to my Bach 7E, I can play F# and G consistently. But I hate the sound of the 7E (I used it in the past as my piccolo mouthpiece).

My questions is: should I work through the issue with my Monette mouthpiece and see if the upper register comes more consistently or should I contact some one like Pickett mouthpieces and see if they are able to help me with a smaller inner diameter mouthpiece that will fit my sound concept and allow for an easier upper register?

Any advice would help. Thanks!
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know how long your break from trumpet playing was, but I am assuming it has been at least a few years. If you have a good sound and are getting up to Eb, E and F on your Monette after just six months I'd say you are doing fine. Keep it up!

There may come a point at which you determine that the Monette no longer meets your playing needs, but I'd wait a while -- at least another six months -- before contemplating a switch.

Good luck!
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tptjazzboy28
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Joined: 30 Nov 2007
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Location: Nashville, TN

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While these two mouthpieces do have different ID's it is worth noting that they also have extremely different throat and back-bore sizes. On the B2S3 you may be seeing the benefits of the sound you like from the larger diameter and from the 7E you may be feeling more efficiency. I can't say that for sure as I'm not sure exactly what your 7E has for a throat and BB.

All this to say there are benefits of each setup, and hopefully you can find something that lines up with the you play as well as your sound concept. I do work with Steve Patrick at PATRICK Mouthpieces and run the Austin Custom Brass Nashville shop and would be more than happy to work with you further if I can help. I would also HIGHLY recommend Peter and his staff at Pickett Brass!! They make awesome products and are great to work with!
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Dkjcliff
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Joined: 12 Apr 2020
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Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought I'd respond because I'm in a very similar boat--started my comeback after years off using my extra forced at-home time. So I've been playing for about 6 months as well.

Early into my comeback, I picked up a used Monette B2D with a rather large throat. I've been using that for most of my day-to-day playing because I love the feel and the sound. I can take it up to a fairly solid high F/F#, and a somewhat weaker G. But that's about it. And it gets tiring fast up there.

For a while I was switching to a curry 60M when I wanted to focus on extreme register (for me) playing. But I would usually come away from those practice sessions feeling overly beat up. I realized that the inner diameter of the cup was too small for my chops and I was responding by jamming the mouthpiece into the fleshy parts of my lips. So I switched to my old standby lead piece, the Schilke 14a4a, which has a much larger inner diameter than the Curry (I think it's actually a bit larger than the Monette B2) and a slightly deeper cup. It takes a little more effort in the upper register compared to the Curry, but it feels much more comfortable. It's all about finding that right balance between comfort, playability, and function.

In other words, my current theory on mouthpieces is try to stick with roughly the same inner diameter, but vary the cup depth, throat, and backbore to achieve greater efficiency. Of course, your facial structure is different than mine so you may not have issues switching diameter like I do.

I wouldn't shy away from trying to find a more specialized high register piece that works for you. If you can play a solid high F, you probably have a pretty stable embouchure and a little mouthpiece safari'ing wouldn't hurt you.
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Rvick82
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Joined: 03 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you both for your replies. I have been off the horn for about 3 years. Not too long. I did a lot of playing before being off the horn. New job and life happened...

I will keep working with my current set up for now. However, I do appreciate the fact you pointed out that the throat and backbone sizes are drastically different. I was wondering if I could get more efficiency with a different mouthpiece set up that would allow for a better, efficient upper register and maintain a my currently sound concept.

I will look into that later but for now I will keep practicing.

Thanks!
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Rvick82
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Joined: 03 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dkjcliff wrote:
Thought I'd respond because I'm in a very similar boat--started my comeback after years off using my extra forced at-home time. So I've been playing for about 6 months as well.

Early into my comeback, I picked up a used Monette B2D with a rather large throat. I've been using that for most of my day-to-day playing because I love the feel and the sound. I can take it up to a fairly solid high F/F#, and a somewhat weaker G. But that's about it. And it gets tiring fast up there.

For a while I was switching to a curry 60M when I wanted to focus on extreme register (for me) playing. But I would usually come away from those practice sessions feeling overly beat up. I realized that the inner diameter of the cup was too small for my chops and I was responding by jamming the mouthpiece into the fleshy parts of my lips. So I switched to my old standby lead piece, the Schilke 14a4a, which has a much larger inner diameter than the Curry (I think it's actually a bit larger than the Monette B2) and a slightly deeper cup. It takes a little more effort in the upper register compared to the Curry, but it feels much more comfortable. It's all about finding that right balance between comfort, playability, and function.

In other words, my current theory on mouthpieces is try to stick with roughly the same inner diameter, but vary the cup depth, throat, and backbore to achieve greater efficiency. Of course, your facial structure is different than mine so you may not have issues switching diameter like I do.

I wouldn't shy away from trying to find a more specialized high register piece that works for you. If you can play a solid high F, you probably have a pretty stable embouchure and a little mouthpiece safari'ing wouldn't hurt you.


Thanks for the advice! I do not like switching rim sizes for different set ups. I went through that in college and after graduation while preparing for some orchestra auditions. I used a 1B for my Bb and C trumpet for orchestral playing, 7E for piccolo, 3D for Eb trumpet, etc. I began to develop a double buzz. When I starting using all the same rim diameter the double buzz went away. That is why I do not want to keep switching between my monette B2S3 and Bach 7E. I really want to settle on constant inner rim diameter for all my playing.
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JVL
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Joined: 07 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hello,
normally you should have the same range on a deep, large throat & bb mpc, than with a "lead" mpc IF the ID are the same and the right ones for you.
But for sound and specific works, that's another matter.
A said before, first find your right ID
best
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wilder
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Joined: 27 Jun 2020
Posts: 85
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dayton wrote:
I don't know how long your break from trumpet playing was, but I am assuming it has been at least a few years. If you have a good sound and are getting up to Eb, E and F on your Monette after just six months I'd say you are doing fine. Keep it up!

There may come a point at which you determine that the Monette no longer meets your playing needs, but I'd wait a while -- at least another six months -- before contemplating a switch.

Good luck!
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kevin_soda
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Joined: 20 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you like your Monette, call or email their shop and tell them your needs and experience. You can easily sell the B2S3 to finance a more suitable mouthpiece.
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Yamahaguy
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Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevin_soda wrote:
If you like your Monette, call or email their shop and tell them your needs and experience. You can easily sell the B2S3 to finance a more suitable mouthpiece.
+1...and I'm sure Dave could be able to tell you which piece may match better with
your Lawler. I'm a big believer in the backbore/receiver-leadpipe relationship, at
least I have found that in my own horn experiences, especially with the "break"
notes of A-flat and A above high C.

By the way, are you in the Advanced or Professional unit of Total range? I ask
because many years ago I worked through this to re-develop strength after my
embouchure change. No short cuts! If you can't play the weeks 1-4 entirely then
you are not ready to proceed. I tried skipping ahead and it led to bad habits and
forcing. If the exercises are done exactly as marked you will find greater success.
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Rvick82
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Joined: 03 Aug 2020
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamahaguy wrote:
kevin_soda wrote:
If you like your Monette, call or email their shop and tell them your needs and experience. You can easily sell the B2S3 to finance a more suitable mouthpiece.
+1...and I'm sure Dave could be able to tell you which piece may match better with
your Lawler. I'm a big believer in the backbore/receiver-leadpipe relationship, at
least I have found that in my own horn experiences, especially with the "break"
notes of A-flat and A above high C.

By the way, are you in the Advanced or Professional unit of Total range? I ask
because many years ago I worked through this to re-develop strength after my
embouchure change. No short cuts! If you can't play the weeks 1-4 entirely then
you are not ready to proceed. I tried skipping ahead and it led to bad habits and
forcing. If the exercises are done exactly as marked you will find greater success.


Thanks! Yeah, I’m thinking a better fitting mouthpiece will help but first I think I should continue to develop the chops.

I have been on the first week of the “professional” section for 3 weeks now. I can play the 4th week advanced completely but am really struggling with the first week of the professional. I have begun playing everything as light as possible at a mezzo piano dynamic level and that seems to be starting to help. Today I was able to play the F# solid and the G almost as solid. It’s coming but way slower than the previous weeks.
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