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Routine, other than Bb trumpet?


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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:14 pm    Post subject: Routine, other than Bb trumpet? Reply with quote

Does anyone practice their routine on a trumpet other than Bb? I play Bb the vast majority of the time but I play C plenty and occasionally piccolo. Does anyone recommend alternating?
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spitvalve
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of trumpeters, especially orchestral players, play almost everything on C trumpet because it's their job. Depends on your needs and preferences, really--whatever horn you need for an upcoming performance will get the bulk of your practice time.

My piccolo gets a few minutes every other day except during the Christmas season when I might need to do the Messiah--then it gets a lot more time. I do try to play every horn in my collection at least three times per week in my normal practice rotation, but the time I put in on each horn can vary depending on need.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was never serious about playing the other key trumpets, but I recall that Adam had a few of his most advanced and orchestrally focused players playing all or most of the routine on C trumpet. However, 90% of his students did the majority of their practice on Bb. I'd be interested in hearing from Karl Sievers, Jim Reed, or some of the other more orchestrally oriented folks on this specifically.
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deleted_user_48e5f31
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:15 pm    Post subject: Daily routine on C Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a significant difference in doing so?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: Daily routine on C Reply with quote

dfcoleman wrote:
I do my daily technique stuff on C or on Bb. I find mixing it up a bit keeps things interesting and productive.

When I was in school, though, I always started the day and did my initial tech stuff on Bb trumpet.

I was not a student of Bill Adam while I was at IU, though. Just noticed this is in the Adam forum.


FYI, Dave is a GREAT trumpet player and was respected by all of the Adam students who were fellow travelers at IU. He knows his stuff.
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Nonsense Eliminator
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not going to pretend my own experience is remotely definitive on this, but here's my two cents. I had lessons on the side with Mr. Adam while I was at IU, and was in John Rommel's studio for a semester, so my knowledge of Mr. Adam's pedagogy is informed but by no means authoritative.

I virtually always played routine on B flat trumpet while I was at IU, and as far as I know so did everybody else than anybody else who was taking lessons from Mr. Adam or studying with Mr. Rommel.

After I left IU, I found myself increasingly playing routine on C trumpet — partly because I often worked out of town and warmed up at the hall before work, and I simply didn't feel like carting around another instrument. I saw Mr. Adam once or twice after I left IU and I think I asked him about this — I don't think he objected, especially since if he had I probably would have stopped. But that was over fifteen years ago, so my memory is foggy.

For 10-15 years I played routine on C trumpet exclusively (except for playing routine with students). And by "exclusively" I mean that even if I was not going to play C trumpet at all that day, I played routine on C trumpet. I found it helpful to start every day the same way on the same horn. (For leadpipe exercise I used a B flat pipe however.)

Over the last couple of years, I've returned to playing routine on B flat trumpet almost exclusively. I needed to reboot a few things in my playing and this helped. I find that on C trumpet, I'm more likely to push on the sound — for some reason the instrument just penalizes this less than the B flat does. I will say that I became highly averse to the B flat trumpet when I was playing routine on C.

(In all honesty, my return to playing routine on B flat is facilitated by the fact that most mornings I have a kid to get to school, so I'm up earlier and I'm much less likely to warm up at work than I used to be.)

I am under no delusions that this current situation is guaranteed to be a permanent thing — in fact, I feel a little less connected to the C trumpet than I used to, and I wonder about mixing in some days where I play routine on C. Of course, this pandemic (you might have heard about it) has messed with both my practice and performance schedules, so there are many factors which could explain my current comfort levels with various instruments...

TL;DR I don't think there's anything wrong with playing routine on C trumpet, but if you're doing it exclusively, be attentive that the C trumpet isn't letting you get away with leaning on the sound.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My teacher was adamant about always starting on the big horn (Bb) before spending any time on the others.
[Just noticed that this is a dedicated forum. Feel free to discount my entry.]
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:02 am    Post subject: Kind words Reply with quote

Thank you for your kind words, Pat.

IU was , and is, a truly special place.


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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses! I'll give it a go on C, see how much it turns me sideways, and go from there. I do practice some fundamentals on C and Piccolo already.

Some other interesting points were brought up though. Singing in the upper register can be a significant limitation for some of us (I can barely sing a C above the staff...). When you approach the upper register outside your singing range, do you find it more effective sing in a lower octave or do you just spend more energy on visualization?

Blowing the leadpipe on C trumpet seems much more squirrelly. It seems much harder for me to find the "right" sound. Is it too short to function the same as Bb? On Bb it seems like I can easily blow straight down the center but C could go anywhere...
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure Adam always used the Bb pipe.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:26 am    Post subject: Singing Reply with quote

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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Singing Reply with quote

dfcoleman wrote:
I sing the lower octave.

You can sing a 2nd ledger line C? Only in my dreams.


Well, "sing" is what I try to do. I definitely produce a sound that is mostly "C"


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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't seem to matter though. Even bad singing helps me!
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevin_soda wrote:
It doesn't seem to matter though. Even bad singing helps me!


Keep the vowel constant
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deleted_user_48e5f31
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:52 pm    Post subject: Routine Reply with quote

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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Singing Reply with quote

kevin_soda wrote:
dfcoleman wrote:
I sing the lower octave.

You can sing a 2nd ledger line C? Only in my dreams.


Well, "sing" is what I try to do. I definitely produce a sound that is mostly "C"



Fun fact... if you're male, you'll probably find that what you think is 2nd ledger C in your vocal range is actually an octave lower than you think it is. We get so used to singing everything an octave lower than written that our brains really think they're the same octave. At least mine does.
You'd probably even sit down at a piano and play that note, sing it, and be totally convinced you're singing the same octave. But if you get a tuner out that shows octaves, your voice will be C5 and the piano C6. The more you know, the less you wish you knew...
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy B wrote:
kevin_soda wrote:
It doesn't seem to matter though. Even bad singing helps me!


Keep the vowel constant


^^^VERY IMPORTANT^^^^

When I sing I try to sing with a "trumpet sound," not a "good" vocal sound.
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Singing Reply with quote

Trumpetingbynurture wrote:
kevin_soda wrote:
dfcoleman wrote:
I sing the lower octave.

You can sing a 2nd ledger line C? Only in my dreams.


Well, "sing" is what I try to do. I definitely produce a sound that is mostly "C"



Fun fact... if you're male, you'll probably find that what you think is 2nd ledger C in your vocal range is actually an octave lower than you think it is. We get so used to singing everything an octave lower than written that our brains really think they're the same octave. At least mine does.
You'd probably even sit down at a piano and play that note, sing it, and be totally convinced you're singing the same octave. But if you get a tuner out that shows octaves, your voice will be C5 and the piano C6. The more you know, the less you wish you knew...


YOU'RE RIGHT! I had no idea. Maybe I'll start learning all my trumpet music in tenor clef so it looks like I'm playing super high notes all the time...
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kevin_soda
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PH wrote:
Billy B wrote:
kevin_soda wrote:
It doesn't seem to matter though. Even bad singing helps me!


Keep the vowel constant


^^^VERY IMPORTANT^^^^

When I sing I try to sing with a "trumpet sound," not a "good" vocal sound.


Okay, I'll try that. Thank you, both. Do you articulate when you sing or is it always "ah?" Or is it based on the phrasing of what you're singing/playing?
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