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ChuckK
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Joined: 20 Aug 2020
Posts: 35
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio USA
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 Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:49 pm Post subject: Yet another mouthpiece post |
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Comeback player here. Back story: I have undergraduate degree with trumpet and graduate work on French Horn. I've spent the last 14 years playing electric bass in a R+B band and musical theater. With the Covid shutdown I'm getting back into brass playing by dealing with cornet. I have an Ambassador with the hope that if I can get the stuff together I'll step that up. Not looking for glory, just a seat in the back row or community band.
I was using a Stork 5C, but due to the advice from this forum I decided to go with a Denis Wick 4BW. The short shank made a difference (thank you to the collective advice here). But my range is limited to notes in the staff. Anything above that is demonstratively unacceptable. I feel a mouthpiece not quite so deep is a good move and perhaps too, one with a narrower rim. (I did spend many years on French Horn).
What advice have you? I've read alot here about Sparx, but the price tag is a little much. Would a DW 3B work? I have a bunch of shallower pieces but the tone suffers. What looks like a good move?
Thanks.
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Never confuse beauty with things that put your mind at ease. - Charles E. Ives |
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
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Joined: 15 Jul 2016
Posts: 667
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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ChuckK
Since you like the short shank cornet mouthpiece, have thought about a used 4 C short shank mouthpiece?
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King 603 cornet American wrap
Jupiter 520 M shepherds crook
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold short shank mouthpiece
Getzen 4 B short shank mouthpiece
Yamaha 11 e short shank mouthpiece
Vincent Bach 5 B short shank mouthpiece |
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ChuckK
Regular Member
Joined: 20 Aug 2020
Posts: 35
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| jondrowjf@gmail.com wrote: | ChuckK
Since you like the short shank cornet mouthpiece, have thought about a used 4 C short shank mouthpiece? |
Would that be a DW 4C? or Bach? I didn't see a 4C in the Wick catalog.
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Never confuse beauty with things that put your mind at ease. - Charles E. Ives |
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cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8914
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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An acquaintance had a particularly nice playing Olds Ambassador that played wonderfully with a GR piece. I don't recall the part number but it wasn't an exotic model.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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ChuckK
Regular Member
Joined: 20 Aug 2020
Posts: 35
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| cheiden wrote: | | An acquaintance had a particularly nice playing Olds Ambassador that played wonderfully with a GR piece. I don't recall the part number but it wasn't an exotic model. |
What is GR?
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Never confuse beauty with things that put your mind at ease. - Charles E. Ives |
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Bryant Jordan
Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 410
Location: Utah, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| A google search will tell you more, but GR is a mouthpiece brand. It was created by Gary Radky, hence 'GR'. They're phenomenal pieces, and quite popular. |
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jul 2016
Posts: 667
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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Duplicate.
_________________
King 603 cornet American wrap
Jupiter 520 M shepherds crook
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold short shank mouthpiece
Getzen 4 B short shank mouthpiece
Yamaha 11 e short shank mouthpiece
Vincent Bach 5 B short shank mouthpiece
Last edited by jondrowjf@gmail.com on Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dennis78
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2015
Posts: 673
Location: Cincinnati
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:28 am Post subject: |
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If the Wick you bought sounds and feels good then use it. With practice the range will come back
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a few different ones |
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delano
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:16 am Post subject: |
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I have never heard of a DW 4C cornet mouthpiece.
BTW an Ambassador cornet (at least not a very early one) will not play better with a short shank mp. Of course it is possible but certainly not necessary.
Stick with the Stork 5C if you like that one (I don't know that mp), an Ambassador cornet is quite a trumpetty horn and plays excellent with a long shank C-cupped mp. The DW cornet mouthpieces have quite deep cups and big throats. Can be a problem for a starter or a comebacker. |
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Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 1472
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:17 am Post subject: Re: Yet another mouthpiece post |
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| ChuckK wrote: | Comeback player here. Back story: I have undergraduate degree with trumpet and graduate work on French Horn. I've spent the last 14 years playing electric bass in a R+B band and musical theater. With the Covid shutdown I'm getting back into brass playing by dealing with cornet. I have an Ambassador with the hope that if I can get the stuff together I'll step that up. Not looking for glory, just a seat in the back row or community band.
I was using a Stork 5C, but due to the advice from this forum I decided to go with a Denis Wick 4BW. The short shank made a difference (thank you to the collective advice here). But my range is limited to notes in the staff. Anything above that is demonstratively unacceptable. I feel a mouthpiece not quite so deep is a good move and perhaps too, one with a narrower rim. (I did spend many years on French Horn).
What advice have you? I've read alot here about Sparx, but the price tag is a little much. Would a DW 3B work? I have a bunch of shallower pieces but the tone suffers. What looks like a good move?
Thanks. |
To be able to play a DW classic decently in my mind, you will have to be one hell of a player. Practice all day long. They sound rich dark smooth but the second you want to play higher than say G top of staff you are likely to meet trouble. I tried a DW 4 BW 2 years - only to realize I just couldn´t use it. The 3B is even deeper. Bird bath!
However I found another DW mpc that suits me better, the Ultra series, deep but not that deep - maybe you could try that one?
In UK brassbands DW seems to be the default but, in my opinion you coud get a lovely cornetty sound using others mpc; e.g. listen to Mr Clean!
Personally I use a Schilke 14D3D custom made - as long as I play cornetty it´s OK - using it with my Getzen 3850 which in itself is "darker".
Mpc and horn (and your personal way of playing) should be seen as a whole.
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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Dennis78
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2015
Posts: 673
Location: Cincinnati
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:55 am Post subject: |
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I’m not a hell of a player and did not practice all day long. But I did switch to a Wick 4 when I got moved to front row in the brass band. It was rough. By the time competition rolled around I had a strong C above the staff.
Currently I’m playing on an old Frank Holton 10 cookie cuter. I find the deeper more open flat rim mouthpieces to give more freedom but they are not forgiving at all. Any moment of shady technique and they’ll shut you down.
Last season I played baritone and to get good tone on those Wicks are truly about air support. Don’t hold back on them at all. Which also translated to the cornet. Today I’ve got one more note to my range. Still cannot do peddle tones!
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a few different ones |
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jul 2016
Posts: 667
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:00 am Post subject: |
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Duplicate
_________________
King 603 cornet American wrap
Jupiter 520 M shepherds crook
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold short shank mouthpiece
Getzen 4 B short shank mouthpiece
Yamaha 11 e short shank mouthpiece
Vincent Bach 5 B short shank mouthpiece
Last edited by jondrowjf@gmail.com on Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jul 2016
Posts: 667
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:19 am Post subject: |
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ChuckK
As listed on the Denis Wick 4 C classic series would be one of their short shank mouthpiece. Bach 4 C is a long shank mouthpiece.
Mouthpieces are for many players, a personal preference. I decided to change to Bach megatone mouthpieces. So sold or I am selling all of non Bach megatone mouthpieces. Since I have a Bach megatone 5 B, I decided didn't need a Bach megatone 5 C too.
_________________
King 603 cornet American wrap
Jupiter 520 M shepherds crook
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold short shank mouthpiece
Getzen 4 B short shank mouthpiece
Yamaha 11 e short shank mouthpiece
Vincent Bach 5 B short shank mouthpiece |
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Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 1472
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| Dennis78 wrote: | I’m not a hell of a player and did not practice all day long. But I did switch to a Wick 4 when I got moved to front row in the brass band. It was rough. By the time competition rolled around I had a strong C above the staff.
Currently I’m playing on an old Frank Holton 10 cookie cuter. I find the deeper more open flat rim mouthpieces to give more freedom but they are not forgiving at all. Any moment of shady technique and they’ll shut you down.
Last season I played baritone and to get good tone on those Wicks are truly about air support. Don’t hold back on them at all. Which also translated to the cornet. Today I’ve got one more note to my range. Still cannot do peddle tones! |
Yes so did I. But not after say the "Dambusters" 
And yes if I were to play back row, then even my 3B might suffice. I do agree on your notion of air support! Indeed. But my body has to be able to use some of the air inhaled. Could have something to do with my construction. 
I take it you mean pedal tones? Double pedal C comes easily for me but then I´m deep in the BE method. When I began - more like farting if I dare say so.
By the way, mr Clean uses a Sparx 2B - could be a candidate?
But as every mpc discussion might be ended: it boils down to the person at the mpc. What seems to be a holy grail to me might be just another piece of metal to you.
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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Dennis78
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Joined: 28 Feb 2015
Posts: 673
Location: Cincinnati
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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True dat!
I can do a nice pedle on baritone though
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9025
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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A musical question before you get overwhelmed by choices. What kind of music and in what proportion does your community band play?
Mine is strictly legit oriented. In the region there's a British Brass Band style, also. There's another one that concentrates on sound track type stuff. Some ands are a potpourri, some specific to one style. What are you looking to fit into?
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Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
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ChuckK
Regular Member
Joined: 20 Aug 2020
Posts: 35
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | A musical question before you get overwhelmed by choices. What kind of music and in what proportion does your community band play? |
I'm not in any group at the time. Covid, ya know. And before this virus hit I was totally involved with music theater and big band, but on bass. The cornet is just a trip to my musical past. I'm hoping to get my poop together enough to play in a medium level community band. There are a few BBB's around here, but they are pretty advanced for what I can deal with in the near future. It's all a bit discouraging. 45 years ago I was playing lead trumpet in big bands, amusement parks, and orchestra. But that was then, this is now. I just want to sit down with an OK group of musicians and have them not suspect I'm an FBI agent.
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Never confuse beauty with things that put your mind at ease. - Charles E. Ives |
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ChuckK
Regular Member
Joined: 20 Aug 2020
Posts: 35
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:58 am Post subject: |
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A lot of goodhearted responses and I thank you for that.
Currently I'm soldiering away with the Stork 3C but anything above top of the staff G is just not reliable.
I really like the tone of the DW 4BW, but as you might guess the range issue is not helped at all.
I'm considering a Bach 1D or 1E. My thinking is to go with a mouthpiece that helps me regain the range, and then move to a more 'cornet appropriate' piece.
Any thoughts on that strategy?
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Never confuse beauty with things that put your mind at ease. - Charles E. Ives |
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Richard III
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Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2655
Location: Anacortes, WA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ChuckK wrote: | A lot of goodhearted responses and I thank you for that.
Currently I'm soldiering away with the Stork 3C but anything above top of the staff G is just not reliable.
I really like the tone of the DW 4BW, but as you might guess the range issue is not helped at all.
I'm considering a Bach 1D or 1E. My thinking is to go with a mouthpiece that helps me regain the range, and then move to a more 'cornet appropriate' piece.
Any thoughts on that strategy? |
Use the Covid time to build your strength. The most range I ever had on cornet was using a Wick 4. But it did take a few months to get there. If I was going to play cornet in a community band, I would use the 4B or similar. That would blend better.
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Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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Cornet2Trumpet
New Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2020
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| The Pickett British line are short shank and work very well |
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