What's with the D above high C?

[steve0930]

Hello all..
Dfcoleman wrote:

[deleted_user_48e5f31]

Deleted by dfcoleman

[soulfire]

If I may offer my 2-cents-

Let's be honest here, Dave is 100% right. I mean I don't think you can make a rational argument that having no teacher is somehow superior to finding a good one, even if you need to go through a few to find the right one for you.

That being said, I think it also depends on what your goals are and where you are in life. Using myself as an example, as I do not know Steve, I've been playing for over 22 years and have had several great teachers. However, I am also married, with a career outside of music and many other priorities. Of course, my goal is to be the best overall trumpet player I can be and playing is my passion, but investing the time and money to study with a private instructor just isn't in the cards for me at this stage of my life. I know what I need to work on and have enough knowledge and experience to know how to go about doing it, with the understanding that I am an amateur, not a pro.

So Steve, the question shouldn't really be is an instructor worth it, because the answer is always 'yes'. The questions should be, what are your goals, where are you as a player and do you have the time and money?

As an aside, none of this has anything to do with why so many players seem to struggle to play higher than D over high C, which is the topic of this thread... even though I'm a hypocrite since I just replied
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Chris

[Croquethed]

Amen, Soulfire.

[JayKosta]

[theslawdawg]

[JayKosta]

[HERMOKIWI]

[soulfire]

I want to jump in here again.

I really think we're all saying the same thing. As I said above, "I don't think you can make a rational argument that having no teacher is somehow superior to finding a good one". As it was pointed out above, the word "good" is very subjective. What is "good" for one student may not be "good" for the next.

I agree with Dave that, if you are a beginner, having A teacher is better than having NO teacher.

However, I also agree with Jay that not every teacher is perfect for every student. I had my embouchure nearly ruined my freshman year of college by a teacher who had the best of intentions. It took me finding a pro in NYC to get me to go back to the way I was and focus on fixing specific issues, as opposed to an embouchure overhaul. Just because someone is more experienced or even a professional, does not automatically make them a good teacher or mean that their method works for you.

With the above being said, whether to get a teacher or not also depends on where you are in your life and what your goals are. Again, I think we are all on the same page here, just saying it differently.
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Chris

[JayKosta]

[Vin DiBona]

I stay away from High Range Development simply because there is only so much nonsense a person can read.
It takes work and above all, natural talent.
Some players just don't have the ability to play much above high C consistently. They don't hear the note and don't have the musculature to make the tiny adjustments needed to move up.
My teachers both said playing chromatic scales helps in achieving the upper register. As the intervals are closer together, the C to D isn't as far apart with a C# in the middle.
All the theories in the world on what is the proper way to achieve the extreme upper register are pointless if there is no talent to actually produce those notes.
R. Tomasek

[deleted_user_687c31b]

[delano]

[theslawdawg]

[gtromble]

[steve0930]

Hi Galen

[HERMOKIWI]

[Lionel]

DURING THE PAST YEAR I've modified my explanation for why the notes above the D/High C tend to elude so many trumpet players. In years past I'd just have said that the trumpet player's inadequate positioning and understanding of how his ''reed'' aka 'upper lip' could and should be positioned relative to both the teeth and mouthpiece was the main reason for the inability to defeat the frustrating range limitation at High D. And I still think that it's a pretty good answer.

After all, the trumpet is the only musical instrument where range limitations of any kind are an almost universally chronic condition. We don't see range limitations on any instruments besides the voice and brass family. The main similarity I think between these two ''families'' is that unlike say a mouthpiece on a Tenor Sax, we can not see specifically the function of the upper lip on a brass instrument. Nor can we tell exactly how the teeth interface with the upper lip. Similarly, we can not see how the vocal cords on a singer work. Although I am suspicious that outside of applying certain exercise that even this understanding couldn't necessarily change a bass singer into a tenor.

I'll admit that these are not descriptive explanations, but if ample time and space were available then I think that a more detailed explanation might satisfy most inquiries. Recently however I've begun to offer slightly less faith in the above explanation. This is because that it doesn't describe a method of making very high-pitched squeaky vibrations come off the chops. My reasoning here is that if one wants to defeat the High D cut-off point? Why not break through the one often found at High G too? In fact, why not remove all ceilings in sound to some nearly ridiculously high note, like perhaps the Triple C?

And if a trumpet player is going to do this then I'm convinced that they'll need to gain the ability to play all sorts of extremely high, squeaky tones simply on the lips alone. Not even with a mouthpiece present. From this perspective, AND given a dedicated student all range limitations should eventually be removed within a few short years. I am very certain of this.
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"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!

Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980).

[Voltrane]

Delano wrote
[And I am still (!! after all those years) surprised that there are some guys here who, though they are not a teacher, not a pro nor have any other recognizable experience in the teaching or any other field field, still scatter around numerous advice on every thinkable subject, not bothered by any serious know how.
OK, I have to be positive but they don't make life easy.[/quote]

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Je m’empresse d’en rire de peur d’avoir à en pleurer (Beaumarchais)

[steve0930]

Hello chaps
I'm not a teacher or a pro, I'm not even a good trumpet player, but I want to contribute! I thought this is a great video, one week old from Wayne Bergeron. .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwbN-gEe0sc&ab_channel=Long%26McQuadeMusicalInstruments

How to break through your personal high note ceiling? Wayne (video 25mins30) cites an example of a student who could play a great E above high C but that was his limit. Wayne 's idea is that when we meet our high range ceiling some tangible change / tilt of horn / mp position / air flow /jaw position is required - and that practice without change is NOT the answer. With this particular student Wayne said he was at a loss - everything looked fine - then he tried a tiny tilt of the bell of the horn upwards to change pressure on the pupil's lips whilst playing a high e and - bang -a G comes out just perfect. And then, as Wayne puts it: "it's like you go into your attic for the first time, wow man there's a bunch of other notes here"

What I have learnt from this is whilst I am now practising heaps more above the staff - practise in itself not enough - I still need to be in discovery mode.


Cheers for now, stay safe, Steve in Helsinki[/i]
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