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New teeth



 
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Daffodil
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Joined: 06 Jan 2021
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Location: England

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:54 am    Post subject: New teeth Reply with quote

Hello everyone. I lost my front four upper teeth in an accident nearly two years ago. Now I have implants (which have no gap between them, I believe this is significant). No matter what I try, I can't get my technique back, in particular:
My range is now terrible - only clean as far as G (and the low end is not as good either)
I get a lot of harmonics as if some part isn't vibrating
Tone is now definitely jazzy rather than classical, I want both!
I can get higher notes up to C sometimes but never for very long and not reliably.
Any ideas please?

(Interestingly, one set of temporary teeth was rather good, but I can't have them again.)
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TrpPro
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your embouchure must learn to adapt to the new teeth. No other way around it.
Had the same experience this summer. Upper front four were all individually crowned with the front two resized intentionally (for a better smile! ). It was a different feel at first for sure, but it got fairly comfortable in about two months and now am playing better than ever.
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Trumpeter585
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well 30 years ago a baseball took my front teeth out. I had a good range than not so well now G above high C. I have a, I came back. Now what is hard for me is to play well after 2 hours of hard play. When the ball hit me it cut the inside of the center of my top lip so now I have a hard seam there. It will take time.
Brian
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have much to add but to say that I share your pain. Around two years ago I lost a top front tooth. Then went through a lengthy course of orthodonture. I've been able to play on Invisaligns somewhat. Then I got an implant. Just this morning I got the permanent crown. Hopefully tonight when the swelling and tenderness subsides I'll be able to see how my playing is,...or isn't. Here's hoping.

Update: Not trying to hijack this thread, but... Played last night and so far so good. In the staff and below feel like they're going to be fine. Playing higher feels like it may require some adjustment, but I'm encouraged.
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Last edited by cheiden on Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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abontrumpet
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like TrpPro said you just have to get used to it.

I would take time off because the musculature is adapted to your old dental topography. But the other part of that topography is how your mouthpiece rim interacts with it. So...once you get your bearings a bit, you might need a slightly different placement and you might need a different mouthpiece because a large part of the equation has changed.

1. For now, advice is to keep the sessions VERY short.
2. Try and get one good sound without worrying about range or response, etc. Just get a good sound. Get that and keep it going for about a minute or two. Put it away. Work up to 20 minutes of playing a day for a couple weeks.
3. Change needs to happen, so if you keep thinking about the way it used to be, you are fighting change. Just let yourself get the sound you want and play the way you want to play.
4. After repeated success achieving your sound, introduce articulation. If you go for staccatissimo notes, you can see how responsive you are but it will also force your to move toward a position of more responsiveness. Regardless, things sometimes are a bit different with articulation, so get your bearings there too.
5. After all that is going, you'll be pretty close to finding ideal position and comfort. You can then ramp up playing time by 10% per week.

Pretend you've never played the trumpet in your life. Everyday. Forever.
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Daffodil
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks everyone, I'll keep trying bearing in mind your comments.
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the length of the implants compared to your natural teeth? I had my upper central incisors shortened a little to make them even with the lateral incisors and it made an immediate difference which is what I theorized would happen and why I altered them.

If your natural teeth had a gap is there a reason the implants can't be altered to have the same gap?
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Bryant Jordan
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chet Baker was in a similar situation at one point in his career. After loosing some teeth, it was almost impossible for him to get back to being able to play. He quit for a while and worked at a gas station...but eventually decided he couldn’t live without playing, so he basically relearned how to play. He said it was awfully tough, but eventually he did it. I think most times it just takes patience and time, even though it might take a very long time.
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Beyond16
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same thing for me. A few months ago, I got crowns for my 4 front upper teeth to fix cosmetic problems. I could play OK with the temporaries. But when the permanent crowns arrived and were installed, my playing fell apart.

It was/is the strangest thing. It felt like the lip muscle strength I built up from months of practice disappeared overnight. The shape of the permanent crowns don't feel noticeably different than the temps. Now it feels like I'm starting over on range.

One difference is the temporary was one-piece, like 4 crowns glued together. The permanents are individual. I do worry about knocking the permanent crowns loose with too much mouthpiece pressure. I didn't worry about that with the one-piece temp, because no way could all 4 break loose at once.

Maybe this worry affected my playing with the permanent crowns. Anyway, I am slowly rebuilding my range, though I'm not back to normal. I play pretty much the same as I did a year ago.
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Daffodil
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's interesting - with regard to your comments about teeth gap and length, my new teeth are more or less the same length. They didn't have a particular gap before but there is literally no gap between them now and I have been told I can't have one (even though they are two sets of two). I read that this makes a negative difference, but Beyond 16 you seem to have experienced the opposite effect, so that's the end of that theory I guess, or it's different for different people. I'll try to be patient!
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american boy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another very important part of this is making sure the distance between
the tops and bottoms are not too far or too tight when you bite..Its called the jet(im sure theres a more medical term for it) but it effects the overall feel alot
and should the dentist not pay attention to that aspect as to trumpet playing,its going to feel even more strange.
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lexluther
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can relate in a big way to your dilemma. I recently had to have a crown on one of my front teeth. The original tooth was a little crooked which forced me to play to the side. I played with a slight underbite to compensate. In comparison, the new tooth is perfectly straight, the size is smaller too. I've got to admit, it looks outstanding and feels great too. When I first picked up my Trumpet I could hardly play at all though. I believe teeth are the hidden elephant in the room. I had to do a complete embouchure change. It is interesting because I started doing what teachers wanted me to, but for whatever reason didn't work for me. Now I know it was because of my teeth, teachers please take note! Here are the changes I was forced to make. 1. I moved my placement to the center. 2. I was forced to align my upper and lower teeth when playing. 3. I tucked my corners tight. The hardest thing for me was muscle memory. I unconsciously kept slipping back to my old embouchure and it temporarily ruined me until I made the new adjustments. I am now two months in and some very interesting things have happened to my playing. My endurance has improved, I play more in tune than I ever did, and my range has skyrocketed. I am very fortunate that this happened while all of my bands are down. My advice to you is to rework your embouchure and stick with it, it should produce good things hopefully.
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Daffodil
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks, I've put away the Arban and got out Concone studies and will try the gentle approach. Yes, all bands are down, I think when they start again there'll be a lot of calls for early tea breaks
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Tony Scodwell
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:11 am    Post subject: Harry James and teeth Reply with quote

I was with Harry James in 1968 and we were to record a new LP with the latest sound techniques re-recording all of the famous Harry James hits in new, modern London Phase 4 stereo. The band assembled in Hollywood and Tutti Camaratta was the producer. Sounds good so far eh?

What all of us in the band didn't know was Harry had all his lower teeth replaced with implants four days before the recording. At the record date we assumed it was just Harry when we did one take on everything as it was his road band and we played these charts every night. One chart was Ernie Wilkin's arrangement of "A-Train" and Harry asked for a second take as he wasn't totally satisfied with his solo. We did the second take and my part was the second trumpet part on the out chorus where Harry played lead over the section. For some reason Tutti used the second take and my second part became the lead as Harry just played up to his solo and didn't feel the need to play the out chorus leaving his part out.

The fact that Harry could play as beautifully as he did was totally amazing when we found out about his dental work just four days prior. I guess my point here is to keep at it and re-adjust to your new teeth situation with a positive attitude. For sure we are not all Harry James but the stories of Mendez and Herseth overcoming serious dental problems should be an inspiration.

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american boy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah as to teeth being the elephant in the room; Back in the early 90`s I was supposed to go out on a tour of 42nd street playing lead,and I had just a week before had a 4 piece bridge put in to replace the top front 4 teeth;After having it placed in there it felt like a totally alien embouchure,but the flight tickets had been paid, and with a crying 3 year old(that would be the kid..lol) and bills to be paid, I went for it..Actually went back and forth to the dentist like 5 times I think that week,to try to get it close enough,but when I left, it was still a big question mark..Made sure to make mention to the other 2 gents in the section to be ready if I had to point, and they were great about that.
First rehearsal was a little rough,but the next one was alot better and the 6 month run went ok in general..As to what got things closer as I was bouncing back and forth to the dentist, was the overjet..When he made that slight adjustment,things got better for sure
That said,I do not recommend sitting on a lead book on a show when your not 100% but sometimes you have no choice
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Daffodil
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for all the stories and advice. I haven't seen any improvement yet but I'll keep trying!
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wilder
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know a number of players(including me) that got front replacement teeth and could not play until they had the Dentist shorten the tooth or teeth. jw
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